Cartier Guilloché Dials: Vintage History and Movements
Vintage

Cartier Guilloché Dials: Vintage History and Movements

By cgreen · Nov 17, 2013 · 13 replies
cgreen
WPS member · Cartier forum
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Chris Green's inquiry into Cartier's use of guilloché dials opens a fascinating discussion on vintage Cartier watchmaking, movement suppliers, and design evolution. This comprehensive set of questions delves into the historical nuances of Cartier's craftsmanship, from dial manufacturing to clasp systems. The community's responses provide essential insights for collectors navigating the complexities of acquiring vintage Cartier pieces.

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Morning all,

Hope you're enjoying a great weekend.  I'm turning to the forum for a bit of help in the vintage world.  I'd like to know when Cartier started using guilloche on their dials and whether it was done in-house or supplied to them by a dial manufacturer.  Were there different dial manufacturers that delivered perhaps better quality dials, hand done guilloche?   

This has come about because I'm interested in buying a '40s - '60s vintage piece and am doing a bit of research.  

I'd very much like to find a Tank and/or Tonneau in platinum with guilloche dial, Breguet hands and a Jaeger or AP movement.  Does such a thing exist?  And if so does anyone know a ref number(s) and better yet does anyone have photos they can share?  

Also, I know that the European Watch and Clock Company was supplying movements but I've recently seen a movement in an auction catalog written as International Watch and Clock Co.  Is this perhaps a mistake or is this another company?

To that end, why are EWC movements so sought after by collectors?  Are they robust calibers or just something that is part of Cartier's history and thus desirable from a standpoint outside of their technical soundness?

Finally, I saw a platinum Tank from the '40s but it comes with a deployant clasp in pink and white gold...could this be original?  When would Cartier have begun using such a clasp system?  

Whatever you all can tell me is terrific, thanks very much for your help, I'm looking forward to hearing from everyone.  Have a terrific day, speak soon.

Yours,

Chris
 
 
PHOTO ADDED by Editor for dial illustration
 





This message has been edited by MTF on 2013-11-22 02:02:22

About the Wempe Tonneau Ref. tonneau

The Wempe Tonneau represents the brand's entry in the shaped watch category, distinguished by its tonneau case configuration within the Chronometerwerke series. This reference demonstrates Wempe's approach to classical case forms with contemporary manufacturing standards.

The 40mm steel case houses the manual-wind Caliber CW3 movement, offering a power reserve of 38-45 hours. The watch features a white dial beneath sapphire crystal protection, with a fixed bezel and leather strap configuration. Water resistance is rated to 30 meters.

This reference appeals to collectors seeking shaped case alternatives from independent German watchmaking. The manual-wind movement and tonneau case form position it as a dress-oriented piece within Wempe's contemporary catalog. Production commenced in 2018 and continues presently, making it readily available in the current market.

Specifications

Caliber
Caliber CW3
Case
Steel
Diameter
40 mm
Dial
White
Water Resist.
30m
Crystal
Sapphire crystal

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The Discussion
MT
MTF
Nov 18, 2013
Too many questions about Cartier, you have

cgreen, You have too many questions for any one person to answer. When did Cartier start using guilloche on their dials and whether it was done in-house or supplied to them by a dial manufacturer. Guilloche predates watchmaking and wristwatches have been around for a century but mechanised guilloche rose to prominence during Victorian times. Were there different dial manufacturers that delivered perhaps better quality dials, hand done guilloche? Yes. Cartier had the wherewithal to afford the bes

CG
cgreen
Nov 19, 2013
Wow! Thank you!

MTF, Thank you very much for your response, this information is tremendously helpful. I've emailed Cartier NA to inquire about this particular piece and will get back to you with the results. The movement and inside case back are signed EWC. I knew they made movements but I wasn't aware they made cases as well. We'll see what Cartier has to say. Meantime, thank you again, I do sincerely appreciate your time. Take good care. Yours, Chris

MT
MTF
Nov 19, 2013
Clarification about EWC

cgreen, Just to clarify. The original EWC made movements for Cartier for export. I believe Cartier New York encased themselves to avoid tax on fully assembled watches imported into USA. I've seen watches in UK also marked EWC movement but I'm not sure if Cartier London encased them. The import tax on 18K gold watches was also devastating so many US watches had 14K cases. Obviously, for Cartier buyers, this 2nd tax dodge was not an issue.... ;) Remember that by 3rd generation, Cartier was split u

CG
cgreen
Nov 20, 2013
Thank you again/Louis Cartier

Thank you again MTF, great information. I read that once Louis Cartier passed away in the early 1940s the company sort of took a turn, (that his artistic vision was what really drove the company forward) is that true? In looking to acquire a vintage Cartier am I better off sticking with a piece from the 1920s or would the '40s still be a safe bet? I understand that mechanically they won't compare to today's accuracy, I'm fine with that. I'm interested in acquiring a piece with good Cartier DNA f

MT
MTF
Nov 20, 2013
Rumours and Hear-say

cgreen, The heart wants what the heart wants....... I cannot advice on the aesthetic choice between 1920s and 1940s vintage Cartier watches. My comment would be about condition, spare parts and remnant authenticity. As watches get older, all three of those items dwindle. Unless you are already an established collector of Cartier pieces, I wonder if a contemporary model may serve better as an introduction to the brand? Louis Cartier was certainly a rare force: possessing both artistry and busines

CG
cgreen
Nov 20, 2013
Newer vs older

I do appreciate that parts are becoming harder to come by with the very old pieces. I was recently advised of the same problem by the folks at Patek when inquiring about a 1960s piece. Just the same, I've always liked the older pieces and would like to pursue one. It won't be a daily wearer but I'd like to own just a little piece of the history in spite of the potential challenges down the road. I'm quite intrigued by this woman in the Paris store who kept the spirit and creativity alive after L

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