Patek Philippe 5004 & Roger Dubuis Sympathie 34

WPS member · Horological Meandering forum

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Emmanuel, known as quattro, initiates a captivating discussion by showcasing two horological titans from fellow collector @ryochan5711's collection: the Roger Dubuis Sympathie 34 Biretrograde Perpetual Calendar Chronograph and the Patek Philippe Perpetual Calendar Split Seconds Chronograph Ref. 5004G. His post invites the community to weigh in on the appeal of these highly complicated pieces, especially contrasting the revered Patek Philippe with the distinctive Roger Dubuis design. This article synthesizes the community's diverse perspectives on grand complications versus horological simplicity.

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Let's start with these two titans, both belonging to the mind-blowing collection of @ryochan5711:

Roger Dubuis Sympathie 34 Biretrograde Perpetual Calendar Chronograph in palladium

Patek Philippe Perpetual Calendar Split Seconds Chronograph, ref. 5004G in white gold with a salmon dial

Watch, Grand Complications, 5004, Perpetual Calendar Split Seconds Chronograph, Patek Philippe

Now, let's replace the 5004G (white gold) with the 5004P (platinum).

The following photo of the palladium Sympathie 34 belongs to our fellow-member toowoundup, who posted it in 2021: check here (his last visit here, unfortunately, dates back to 2022).

credit: credit: @ryochan5711 (1-3, 5-6 & 8), @masaharu.me (4) & toowoundup (7)

What do you think about these titans?

I know the 5004 is revered and adored, but do you also like the Roger Dubuis?

Thanks for looking.

Best, Emmanuel

About the IWC Ref. 5004

The Patek Philippe reference 5004 is a highly regarded grand complication, combining a split-seconds chronograph with a perpetual calendar. This reference was a significant offering in Patek Philippe's catalog, representing a sophisticated blend of technical mastery and traditional watchmaking. It was produced in limited numbers, making it a sought-after piece among collectors of complex horology.

The watch features a 36mm platinum case with a thickness of 15mm, housing the manual-winding caliber CHR 27-70 Q. This movement provides a power reserve of 60 hours and is protected by a sapphire crystal. The dial is presented in silver opaline, offering clear legibility for its numerous indications. The case is water-resistant to 30 meters.

As a split-seconds perpetual calendar, the reference 5004 appeals to collectors who value both intricate mechanical solutions and classical design. Its production run from 1996 to 2012 saw various dial and case material iterations, though platinum was a prominent offering. The integration of two major complications in a relatively compact case underscores its appeal within the realm of high-end watch collecting.

Specifications

Caliber: CHR 27-70 Q

Case: platinum

Diameter: 36mm

Dial: silver opaline

Water Resist.: 30m

Crystal: Sapphire crystal

Key Points from the Discussion

Some collectors find extensive complications on a wristwatch to be visually cluttered and unnecessary for daily timekeeping, preferring elegant simplicity.
The original author, quattro, expresses a personal appeal for the Roger Dubuis Sympathie case and its biretrograde complication, viewing it as an elegant way to embrace a 'wild' design, contrasting it with the classical style of the Patek Philippe 5004.
Grand complications can be likened to a well-performed orchestra symphony, offering a different, richer sense of harmony compared to the solo performance of a time-only watch.
The Patek Philippe 5004 is considered by some to represent the impeccable pinnacle of traditional Swiss watchmaking, embodying the highest standards of the industry.
The author views perpetual calendars and perpetual calendar chronographs as expressions of 'joyful exuberance' rather than a display of 'showing off' by watchmakers.
There's a shared desire among collectors to experience these highly complicated watches in person, acknowledging that photographs often don't fully capture their true essence.

The Discussion

quattro

May 24, 2026

I feel the same way.

Champthekid

May 24, 2026

I think both are really great watches.

I definitely love the Roger Dubuis a lot even though it’s not really my style.

quattro

May 24, 2026

Like you, I don’t know if I would feel

100% comfortable wearing it (I would love/need to try one on to see how it feels on the wrist), but I really like the design. Best, Emmanuel

pw927

May 24, 2026

I like both.

The RD has such a unique design and layout. But the Patek PCC dna is royalty to me.

quattro

May 24, 2026

Yes, well said, “royalty”!

I’d love to see both in person because I know how photos are unfaithful to reality most of the time. Best, Emmanuel

Blansky

May 24, 2026

Probably the outlier here but huge complications and a jammed packed dial do nothing for me.

I get that people marvel at the craftsmanship of extensive complications but for me it's just stuff I don't need and makes a dial seem just messy. I far prefer elegant simplicity. I've seen a few pocket watches with a lot of complication and find them great but on a wrist watch not so much.