Comments:
Well, if you like it that much...
It depends if it is really something you've been looking at for a long while (so you know you love it) or if it is new (then I would suggest to wait a little longer in order to be sure).
Of course, it also depends on your budget and the price of the watch: whether it costs 5 000 or 50 000 is a different matter.
Personally, I never did. There is this 5975G that I love but it is quite different. People got it at retail price and then many sold it to make a profit based on speculation. Hence, I would never put a single additional euro to get it as it would mean they were right to do it. I wouldn't like a retailer to play that game either.
That's just my opinion based on these few elements.
Keep us informed 
Best, Mark
PS: About auctions, remember that there are at least 20% or 30% of the auction price that goes to the auction house. Hence, a price can show what the market is ready to pay but also what some clients are ready to accept.
I have never paid over retail, but
Then again I've never been in this position either.
Firstly are the auction prices you mentioned for unsealed watches?
Secondly is this a watch that, before it was offered, you wanted and waited for?
Lastly if you walk away, could you find an unsealed version in the future that you would pay less for since you
plan to "wear the hell out of it?"
Some of the questions I would ask myself . Some watches leave us no choice. Those are the easiest to buy.
good luck with your decision.
Regards
H.
If the watch is extremely limited, I guess the retail price is kind of irrelevant. What matters is whether it's at a fair market price.
Also bear in mind that when you cut the seal the watch is going to lose value immediately.
I think you should buy it, so we can see it on your wrist It must be incredible, maybe a 3670?
I think you should buy it, so we can see it on your wrist
It must be incredible, maybe a 3670?
The loss in value if I cut the seal is only hypothetic as I have absolutely no intention to sell it.
I would rather be annoyed, if I would see the same reference for sale a few month later for a much favourable price.
No 3670, Unfortunately! Not yet... ;-)
No 3670, Unfortunately! Not yet... ;-)
Personally...
I would not pay over list price for anything but that is just a principle I live with. However, I also believe if you want something badly enough, you should buy it (irrespective of the price) because the opportunity may never come again. Also for some watches like the 5131 range, even though prices in the used market may seem inflated, this is only relative to the RRP because in the years to come, today's prices may seem a bargain. Don't look back - follow your heart and your head and enjoy the watch!!!
I definitely would.
After all, the real price is the one that someone is willing to pay.
Aris
Aris
I agree.
Shares of a good managed companies are traded over their nominal values normally...
To the really experienced collectors on watchprosite...
As it is about a substantial amount. I need to know or rather learn more...
Are there any things I have to pay attention if the piece is single sealed and comes with box and papers?
What are my due diligence obligations to do?
What are the dos and dont's in the transaction processing if the counterpart is not an official AD, that means it's a grey dealer.
Many thanks already for your responses!
if it is a grey dealer then you must...
ensure that you have recourse if the watch is not brand new after you have Patek service center checked it out.
Perhaps put funds in escrow or make only partial payment.
If it is a chrono24 dealer, then see it there is an insurance policy that you can purchase. Another PuristS just bought a nice Patek and bought the insurance for around U$700 and everything worked out
Good luck !
Perhaps put funds in escrow or make only partial payment.
If it is a chrono24 dealer, then see it there is an insurance policy that you can purchase. Another PuristS just bought a nice Patek and bought the insurance for around U$700 and everything worked out
Good luck !
Several questions
It is very hard to say without knowing what watch it is but here are a few things I would think of (I don't have such purchase experience).
Have you seen the watch, the dealer or is it something you've done with pictures and phone calls? They are 2 very different ways of making a purchase, with more risks in the latter.
The best is to be able to get the watch's serial number and enquire a Patek Salon about it (stolen, genuine number etc...).
By the way, we know that there are many palstic bags that are used to re seal the watches. I don't have an experience in recognizing which one is the original one (from the manufacture) and the ones that ADs can use afterwards (like after a servicing etc...).
Thus, has this watch never been unsealed? How can we be sure? Maybe one of our friends here have an answer to this.
If you want to use the watch, the fact it is sealed doesn't help for the re sale (and you have to pay a premium). I imagine you prefer that because you can feel that it has never been worn or opened etc... Hence, back to my previous remark, you should be sure it has never been re sealed.
As for the payment, you'll certainly have to pay 100% of the amount before getting it. So, as usual, "buy the seller". This is something only you can assess, except if you ask members if they already made a transaction with him.
If you can't see the watch and go to the AD, you can also ask someone you know to go there and have a look for you.
Is it still under warranty? Was it sold less than 2 years ago by an official AD, with the stamp, name etc? This is something you should check because if there is no warranty, it has to be included in the negociations.
Again, we don't know much about your purchase so it is difficult to be more precise.
Good luck,
Best, Mark
Thank you Mark! Your posts give me as always food for thought... [nt]
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Is it really that easy?
Do you get an positive answer, if you ask Patek Salon for the provenience of a piece with just a serial and movement number?
I think it also depends on the relationship
but I think you can explain the case, you are going to buy a Patek and would like to know if the serial number exists and coherent with the watch you're buying.
Best, Mark
It's not a secret and
I prefer if we could have a general discussion about this topic or challange and not a pro or contra discussion about a specific reference.
Was just curious which ref demands such a high premium.
Personally I would not buy very expensive watches on the grey market neither below or above retail price. I don't like the 1% risk there might be despite feeling 99% safe about the history of the watch, the dealer etc.
I would do it. But
I would ask myself the same questions I do for regular pieces:
Never buy without seeing it: yes even if it means a long trip. Especially if we talking over 100k or obviously more.
Can you afford to loose this money? In the end some rare pieces are a good investment but if you have to recover some funds quickly, you will probably loose a fair amount. Where do you draw the line?
Seconding what Mark says. I have a hard time believing in sealed watches, you have no way of telling. The watch may be genuine but the seal...I never dealt with this but I would put a fair argument to the seller and start bargaining from there.
Never buy without seeing it: yes even if it means a long trip. Especially if we talking over 100k or obviously more.
Can you afford to loose this money? In the end some rare pieces are a good investment but if you have to recover some funds quickly, you will probably loose a fair amount. Where do you draw the line?
Seconding what Mark says. I have a hard time believing in sealed watches, you have no way of telling. The watch may be genuine but the seal...I never dealt with this but I would put a fair argument to the seller and start bargaining from there.
sealed watch
Purchasing a sealed rare watch and paying over retail is a big decision.
Here are a few things to consider:
1) Are you comfortable paying over retail for a low production watch that seldom comes up for sale? The answer would have to be a resounding yes to proceed, meaning you have been looking for this watch for a while and it is finally available for sale.
2) Do you trust the seller and his representation of the watch? Have you purchased from the seller before or know of others who have purchased from the seller with good results?
3) Have you seen the watch in person? If not, are you comfortable making a purchase decision without seeing it first?
I have purchased some limited edition watches before and the transactions were in person after seeing the watches and making sure the seller has been in business for a long time. The sellers also had a physical storefront vs having only a website. One of the transactions was missing some original accessories, but that was partly my fault for not doing my homework and checking what I should have received in a "full complete set".
Thank you Jon for sharing your experiences.
In any case I would want to see the watch personally before I buy it.
I know, looking for a sealed piece is quite irrational as every Patek, that was in service returns to the AD sealed an in a brown cardboard box...
I made an enquiry on Chrono24
on a 3940 once. Sold as new and single sealed. I asked specifically if it was first seal and unworn. This New York seller never replied even after asking a couple of times. I smelled a rat and asummed it was sealed after a service to pump up the price for a used watch. So there is no doubt that you must ask the seller to let Patek verify and somehow safeguard your deposit if there are any doubts.
I bought last year
a 5450P. The watch was double sealed and I paid around 50% premium compared to the original price.
Taking into account that I missed the original offering, I think a made a fair and good deal.
Best, Kari
Taking into account that I missed the original offering, I think a made a fair and good deal.
Best, Kari
Kari, I didn't know that you are such a reasonable guy... ;-) Bravo! [nt]
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Are there any reasons not to buy it?
Personally, I don't believe I could pull the trigger especially if it is a relatively recent piece.
Since 1989, the limited production pieces have become far more frequent and there is no reason to believe it will not continue .. a celebration of the new facility, anniversary pieces in 5 or ten year cycles for iconic or very successful production pieces, etc.
Of course, if this is THE watch, then you are the only one to assess its value and make the decision.
Not an easy one but it certainly seems as though you have already made a preliminary decision, just seeking opinions. Take your time, anyone else considering it will have to be questioning the premium as well.
Best of luck!
Whit