Independents

Budapest

He is such a nice gentleman: modest and approachable but, above all, quiet. That is his biggest 'failing', little ego, no need to prove himself, just massive talent. His few watches are special, each one unique in some way. A true enthusiasts secret!!

Amazing work.

Kari Voutilainen, Vianney Halter

PP & Rolex are independent too ;-)

But they are still large watch brands that churns out tens of thousands ( in Rolex case, nearly a million ) watches a year.

they produce watches they think is the correct one, they don't listen/respond to market needs in general.
Rolex & PP does it - they always launch something that leaves the market to look forward to 'what next'
Best,
mahesh.,

Your five brands are for sure one of the best but like others mentioned Kari V , Vianney H , H Moser , DeBethune , Urwerk , MB&F , Roger W S. And some more are amazing brands too , its all what you like and what your feeling is with a brand imho

Look at their numerous inventions, patents and innovations and prestigious awards. Not a single other watchmaker has reached this level. Most are playing the card of finishing techniques or dials. GF is different in all aspects and for me the number ONE of the modern era. 100 co-worker make 100 watches a year. Impressive. The rest is highly debatable.

But, they are not indie 😀
They are trailblazers, industry leaders, horological wizards, cutting edge and important BUT at least 20% of their company is owned by AP.

So, i don’t think they quite qualify as indie.

But they are indisputably awesome!

FPJ has also sold 20% of his stock to Chanel . Still a indie brand imho . 20% isnt going to give you the power of the company to tell them which way to go i think . its Just a financial injection imo
and a collab for there knowledge and knowhow

But as soon as you have an investor or financial partner (1% or 20%), they get a say in how you run, what products you develop, etc.

Even if they are a silent partner, they are “invested” in your success and will not look kindly to failure.

GF and FPJ are both great brands. But not true independent.

Cheers

PS I was at a GTG recently and we talked about this. One of the guys said something which resonated with me and quite an apt simile for this situation.
He said. Imagine you have a house and a flock of sheep near a forest. There is a pack of wild wolves who live in the forest. Every day they try to eat your sheep.

You befriend one of the wolves, and 1 day per week that wolf comes to eat out of your hand. Only 1 day / week, but he comes EVERY week. The rest of the pack do not.

Now, is that one wolf still truly WILD anymore or has he been domesticated?

Am I making sense (have had a few drinks now after work) 😀
HAGWE

This is a good article to understand better:

thejourneguy.com

And this one:

thejourneguy.com

So, you see it is quite different than you might expect!

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Interesting.
(For the prices they command, you’d think someone would have stuck up for them by now)

After channel buying a stake? I know it’s a minority

Chanel also bought a stake in Romain Gauthier. Frankly, I don't like these fashion brands having any association in Haute Horology. Kinds of cheapens it.

You'll find it's not what you think. In fact, Chanel is strengthening the independence of FPJ. Further, from the very beginning, FPJ has had silent investors, something that is no secret. This move assures independence, nothing less.

This is a good article to understand better:

thejourneguy.com 

And this one:

thejourneguy.com 

So, you see it is quite different than you might expect!

No message body

in his focus on truly handmade independent watches he is right up there with Dufour and Smith although his style and focus with regard to finishing is of course very different. But he certainly hits my sweet spot ...

1. Roger W. Smith
2. Bexei
3. Gronefeld
4. Romain Gauthier
5. Ochs und Junior.

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Vincent Calabrese is for me the first . He is a true genius .

Always loved his pieces

NT

We are very fortunate to have so many amazing independent watchmakers to choose from.

NT

For me, independent watchmakers as much as independent brand is important.

And at a time in their careers when they "benched" their own work, which I suspect the names on the doors of many of the independent brands don't actually do anymore themselves.

Think Thomas Prescher with his triple axis tourbillion





McGonigle Brothers





Masahiro Kikuno,




Ludovic Ballouard (who if I'm correct was a watchmaker for FPJ).







Peter Speake-Marin before the sale of his brand. (Sorry Peter)

I want to know (falsly believe the sceptics would say) that I am supporting the artist / crafts person over a brand.

Sure - we can and will debate the uniqueness and "in house-ness" of the movement, and I'm not interested in a dropped in slightly modified eta, but in the talent and artistic creations these watchmakers bring to whatever components they utilize.

An off the shelf movement in the greatest of brands is not for me value add. A heavily or fully outsourced movement that is the technical and artistic design of the watchmaker is still - for me - independent; again, if they've actually been part of bringing to live the watch itself - designed, benched it. Not just sourcing parts and marketing.

One test for me - can I meet the watchmaker themselves? I've had the honor of meeting each of the watchmakers named above, in their atelier or home (often the same place).

I doubt I'd get FPJ's attention even with a $100k boutique limited edition.

So keep Smith, Kari, Vianney, Dufour on this list (though out of my price range at the moment).

Support the watchmakers who are keeping alive the skill of designing and building mechanical watches. It's the talent - and not the finances - that matter to me.

Just my two cents.

To have met the watchmaker of your watch is a extra bonus for me . It gives an extra dimension and feeling to your watch Imho .