Patek Philippe Grail Watches: Collector Discussion

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Patekova's thought-provoking post delves into the nuanced definitions of 'grail,' 'final,' and 'exit' watches, terms that resonate deeply within the collector community. He shares his personal journey with the Patek Philippe Ref. 2499 and his evolving perspective, ultimately finding profound satisfaction in the Ref. 5970. This article explores the psychological aspects of collecting and the pursuit of horological perfection, as illuminated by Patekova's insights and the community's diverse experiences.

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risked life and limb in seeking the “Holy Grail”.

For me grail watch is slightly different than final or exit watch. Grail watch is often thought of as the ultimate watch a collector might reasonably (or unreasonably) hope to acquire to fulfill a deep seated and often long lasting hunger/search to acquire it. For me it does not necessarily also mean final or exit watch. Having acquired one’s grail watch, one might still want to acquire additional (lesser) watches. A final or exit watch on the other hand, connotes “I’m done. I’ve completed my watch journey. No more watches for me.” Of course a grail watch can be and often is a final or exit watch.

For many years I had a grail watch. Realistically, knowing myself I did not think it would be a final or exit watch. I knew there would be other watches I would want and would acquire- but none would rise to the level of my grail watch if I ever acquired it.

The grail watch I long wanted (notice “wanted” not “want”) to acquire was a mint condition early 3rd series 2499. This watch has many vintage elements of the prohibitively more expensive (ie, out of reach) 1st and second series - leaf hands, enameled signature and tracks and plastic crystal. I love this watch and I tried, but it seemed I was forever bidding on examples that became more and more out of my reach. Now that the prices are so crazy high, I know that even if I gave up a bunch of watches I love to get it I would rarely if ever wear it. Just too valuable to feel comfortable with it on my wrist. To have this incredible watch sitting in a vault would be far less satisfying than wearing the watches I would have to give up to get it. So, I no longer have a grail watch. I actually feel a sense of freedom relieved of this quest/obsession. I include an image (obviously not mine) of a beautiful 3rd series 2499.

There is watch which for me which while not my grail, final or exit watch is as good as it gets. I think the 5970 in any metal is a perfect watch and actually something I prefer to own over a 2499 which would mostly sit in a vault. The 5970 for me is the ultimate modern (maybe all time) Patek. The size, complications, ease of use (4 quick set correctors), water resistance, sapphire back to view the movement and subjectively sheer beauty set it apart. Most important, when I wear it gives me a satisfaction and happiness that is hard to describe. I include an image of a J (not mine) because the image is fantastic and it is easy to see the lineage from 2499J.

So I wonder what is your grail or exit or final watch? Or perhaps you would prefer to have a larger mix of watches that don’t fall in those categories? More generally, what are your personal views about grail/final/exit watches?

Best, Patekova

About the Patek Philippe Grand Complications Ref. 2499

The Patek Philippe Reference 2499 is a highly significant perpetual calendar chronograph, representing a pivotal model in the brand's history of complicated wristwatches. It succeeded the Reference 1518 and introduced a larger case diameter and updated aesthetic, establishing a design language that would influence subsequent perpetual calendar chronographs from Patek Philippe for decades. The reference was produced in four distinct series, each with subtle variations in dial layout, pusher style, and case construction.

This reference typically features a case crafted from precious metals, most commonly yellow gold, though examples in rose gold and platinum are known. The case diameter is generally 37.5mm, housing a manual-wind movement, specifically the caliber 13''' Q. This movement integrates a perpetual calendar mechanism with a chronograph function, offering indications for day, date, month, leap year, and moon phases. The crystal is typically acrylic for earlier series and sapphire for later iterations.

The 2499 is highly sought after by collectors due to its rarity, complexity, and historical importance. It is considered a benchmark for vintage complicated Patek Philippe watches and represents the evolution of the perpetual calendar chronograph from the mid-20th century. The variations between the four series provide distinct collecting opportunities, with each series possessing unique characteristics that appeal to different connoisseurs.

Specifications

Caliber: 13''' Q

Case: 18k white gold

Diameter: 37.5mm

Dial: Silver

Water Resist.: 30m

Crystal: Sapphire

Key Points from the Discussion

For some collectors, the journey is continuous, with 'the next' watch always on the horizon, making the concept of a 'final' or 'exit' watch elusive.
The 5970 is frequently cited as a 'perfect' Patek Philippe reference due to its size, complications, ease of use, water resistance, sapphire case back, and aesthetic appeal.
The definition of a 'grail' watch can evolve; it might initially mean an 'exit' watch but later transform into the most treasured piece within a collection, with the pursuit of an even 'bigger grail' continuing.
A 'less is more' approach to collecting involves curating a smaller, highly satisfying collection, even if it means letting go of many desirable pieces.
While both are perpetual calendar chronographs, the Patek Philippe Ref. 3970 and Ref. 5970 have distinct aesthetic differences, with the 3970 offering a more understated elegance and the 5970 a sportier presence due to its larger case, different lugs, rectangular pushers, and tachymeter.
The Patek Philippe Ref. 5004, with its Lemania movement, is considered a highly desirable and historically significant piece, often ranked alongside the 5070 and 5970 as a collector's favorite.

The Discussion

Miles_151

Oct 26, 2021

If you are a true collector. There is simply just the next and then the next and then the next……… I realised this many many years ago. Interesting what you say about the 5970. Yes for me also the perfect Patek for all the reasons you mention. However having owned all bar the J along with this one below which some call a grail then why do I spend so much time looking for, hunting ,chasing the next purchase. ???????? Because I will never be satisfied and the itch for the next fix will never end. I

w220

Oct 26, 2021

For me, the grail exit watch would be the 5178G. Not going to happen anytime soon, but that would be the last watch I would ever buy.

enjoythemusic

Oct 26, 2021

I see the parallel to transportation when asked "What is the best car?" Well, that depends on the task it is being used for. Heck, you might need a truck! And did you need a light-duty or heavy-duty one?

patekova

Oct 26, 2021

“I’m done” and actually stick to it. I admire anyone who can do that. Maybe some day I will become that guy, but frankly that is hard to imagine. Regarding your salmon 5970G - if 5970 is a “perfect” (whatever that means) reference, your watch catapults it to a level that is hard to define. Suffice it to say, I think of it as one of the best looking watches (Patek or otherwise) ever made!

patekova

Oct 26, 2021

Can I at least have 2 (dress and sport)?😂

amanico

Oct 27, 2021

For Omega, the vintage Speedmaster Alaska project, or a super manual winding Chronometer. And so on... I am a lost case...

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Patek Philippe Grail Watches: Collector Discussion

About the Patek Philippe Grand Complications Ref. 2499

Specifications

About the Patek Philippe Complications Ref. 5970

Specifications

Key Points from the Discussion

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