als1678
1301
I agree. Which makes discussions of "value" difficult. .
To your original point - one huge factor is clearly the enormous increase in production and the resulting accumulation and oversupply in both primary and secondary markets. Think of how many Panerais are out there VS 10 years ago. Unless one follows fashionable trends or sticks to very very few niche examples like the ones Nico mentions, one is going to take a huge hit on a resale. Which makes most people much less likely to experiment, to follow gut instinct and take risk with their choices. Also there are incredible watches out there that sell for peanuts. I think most people on this forum realize the disconnect between intrinsic value and the market value. Staying a "purist" requires more compromise now than ever before. Which is ironic, and a bit sad.
Changes in the market: My experiences in the second hand market. Is it still fun to be a collector?
Hi everyone. Over the past years, I've sold quite a few watches to second hand dealers. About 30% of the watches I buy have to leave again after some time, because love faded away. I'm Always selling to the same 2-3 dealers I've had good experience with. ...
You have the answer here, in this website of ours. Many people pay interest to Patek and Rolex, but not only. No, my friend, there is a life outside Patek and Rolex.
And there are watch enthusiasts who pay a lot of interest to other brands, such as JLC, AP, Breguet, Blancpain, and so on. One example? The vintage Fifty Fathoms are pretty sought after. Another example? The JLC Deep Sea Alarm, Geophysic, Polaris, Reverso...
Well If you have a Look at this Website you're right
But I think this Website is Not necessarily representative for the "outside world". And Other watch forums I've visited have died because of the lack of different topics.
I agree. Which makes discussions of "value" difficult. .
To your original point - one huge factor is clearly the enormous increase in production and the resulting accumulation and oversupply in both primary and secondary markets. Think of how many Panerais are out there VS 10 years ago. Unless one follows fashi...
Interesting perspective. Thank you.
Raises the question for me: how has the importance of value Retention developed over the years and decades? Was it Always important? Did It gain importance through all the price increases in the early 2010s?
It has always been the case, but on other targets. For example, the Panerai between 1993 and 1997 have exploded till 2009 / 2010. Then they went down in value.
The Comex? Up... And down, and up, and down... We shouldn't pay that much attention to financial value, but to affective and horological values, in my opinion. And there are still very under rated watches to get at some vey fair prices! Best, Nicolas
Well said
Couldn’t agree more. Thee is a huge difference between having interest in a certain watch, buy it and enjoy it, versus ownership and trading with the aim to make a profit. The other factor that springs to mind is the fact that nowadays the online trading ...
Nico summed it up perfectly, and trends tend to change over time. Some watches you can't sell today might again be popular in the future -- just keep them, they don't occupy too much room...
But especially in a community with many genuine watch enthusiasts like ours, you will already find people interested in all kinds of models -- including many watches that are not attractive to grey dealers or other speculators looking for a quick buck. Al...
My topic wasn't meant to be about me not being able to sell my watches
I don't need the money, I Just don't Like having unused items in my house. It was about the Market becoming Uniform and less divers
This is certainly true -- that at least in this sense, the market is currently more "uniform" than it used to be, though again with a number of notable exceptions...
But especially if we don't need to sell our watches, the answer to your question "Is it still fun to be a collector in the current market if all you See is Patek, AP and Rolex everywhere?" for me is a pretty resounding "Yes" ;-)
You have a very valid point.
In fact, I have seen the same happening in the secondary market. Besides a very few over hyped brands and models ( you named them), the market has become very slow and some dealers shy away from putting other stuff into their stock. Some very well respect...
Yes, I think that model could be a good one for some brands.
Selling used watches with a "new" warranty from the Brand itself could Open up new opportunities for the Brands.
In a way, I think the market has created a self-inflicted wound to some extent.
I will speak of my own experience here because I’ve also spoken to many others with similar experiences. Over the years my tastes and desires for watches have changed a lot. In the past, I also tended to let my gut reaction dictate the way more than I do ...
Is it really a price to value Problem?
A lot of people I know would say that the value/price Relation at MSRP of a JLC is a lot better, than of PP. The currently perceived value of PP has less to do with the real value of the watch and more with the market craze around PP creating ever more de...
I think there is a phobia right now among watch enthusiast...
They’re scared to spend their hard earned money on watches with poor resale value. So now, they are less adventurous buyers. Fear is a factor, but I think some brands need to re-evaluate their pricing to reflect the market. The only way that I see things ...
But will they be sucessfull with it?
When it comes to pure luxury items, the bang for the Buck looses some importance. Some brands might even loose customers, If they'd become "too easy to afford"
Many independent brands
would not attract interest from second hand dealers but this is an area with growing interest especially on this forum. Thanks to these smaller brands, watch collecting has seldom been more fun!
+10000 my friend 🤗Fully agree with you on that one .
I try to stay away from the,, big and populair (hyped),, brands .
I agree as Well.
The Independent brands are currently the Most interesting ones, even though one could argue that some are already in the boarder to become a big Brand (e.g. FP Journe)
True!
Have to see other beautiful watches other than Nautilus, Aquanaut, GMT/Sub/Daytona
Yes true. But vintage watches are also very expensive now :(
But unpopular modern watches can still be had for ''cheap''
Now more than ever!
First of all, even without this perceived bubble, nobody cared about watches in my immediate vicinity anyway. Even when I go to swanky places, while I do see nice watches on people, it is very rare that I see secret handshake type watches. For Rolex, hard...
This is true
and has really softened the retained value in so many names. It is very hard to sell a watch without a great internet sales history. Regrettably, nice as they may be, most watches, especially PM dress watches are not selling on the used market. Dealers do...
I'd agree with this....
Of course it's always been this way to an extent, but the market seems so trend driven now. I just don't understand why the FPJ CB, the 5711, and the gaudy stuff that Rolex are producing these days are attracting the prices they are. Obviously I get the s...
Still fun! No Rolex or Patek in my collection.
I now purchase all my watches secondhand. Typically 40-60% of MSRP. If I decide to sell, maybe I lose 20%. If I’m worried, I don’t buy. I will not retreat to safer brands. I’m thankful for the people who follow their tastes and take risks on brands like R...
It's all about passion.
I think if you really like watches, of course it is still fun, why wouldn't it be? Now, if you like to buy and sell, trade, flip, or whatever you wanna call it, it's true that there are just a few watches that could be really interesting and profitable as...
In my opinion, what separates the people on this forum from other sites is a true passion for horology.
This site has help me broaden my interest and developed new insights into other manufacturers. As a result most people here have interest in many different maisons it is a most collegian Atmosphere.
+2. I would also add that I'm totally broke thanks to this forum, but I agree on all the rest...:-))
Seriously, you've indicated the main reasons why WPS is the only watch forum I frequent -- in fact, it's my *only* social media presence (never had IG, FB, Twitter, etc.), with no intention to change for as long as it remains the beautiful and instructive...