Velociphile - No longer in the building
1397
"until I discovered the truth"
I don't think LF actually ever hid the facts. LF is a lot more than an assembler.
Of course one can choose one's own definition of in-house and where to play on the spectrum of value. In the end, it's your money and choice to consider the intrinsic value involved.
If one pays a designer to follow a brief or vision and create IP for me, is that in-house or outsourced?
Is it ok if one sells rights to it to another party to help fund one's own business?
Do they have to do every process in manufacture including commodity parts of the value chain that make no sense for a small business to own the capital equipment for?
Rolex go as far as to have their own foundry, but do they own the mines the metals come out of?
Honestly, in the grand world of smoke and mirrors of the *massively* overpriced opaque Swiss watch industry we live with in 2018 I think LF are doing a good job within the constraints they have.
Velociphile
I propose that to settle the controversy about Laurent Ferrier's characterization of movements as being in-house, we go straight to the source
I'm sure LF knows that the WIS audience for haute horlogerie timepieces is a very demanding, high-maintenance, ruthlessly perfectionist crowd. The targeted buyers of their products are not superficial collectors who are looking for various dial and bezel ...
Enrico Barbasini 😉
To what extent do we, watch enthusiasts, collectors, etc, accept outsourcing of design,parts, if not of the whole movement? There is nothing wrong when it is clearly reported in capital letters, but what does in-house stand for? I recently discovered that...
"until I discovered the truth"
I don't think LF actually ever hid the facts. LF is a lot more than an assembler. Of course one can choose one's own definition of in-house and where to play on the spectrum of value. In the end, it's your money and choice to consider the intrinsic value ...
I like LF watches
But if i had the money, i would never buy any of them. For me, being independent is much more. Unfortunately, he's not the only one, there's also another famous watchmaker who's turbo cage comes from ...outside. Journe embodies the achetype of independent...
+1
We have indeed seen true horological innovation from FPJ and I’ve heard other AHCI members grudgingly acknowledge that. As much as LFs watches are nicely finished and well designed, I personally would not see them as adding much in terms of horological in...
To be fair, Velociphile
It was a few months back that you were ready to believe FPJ used ETA movements (or had movements based on ETA), when even a cursory glance at FPJ's movements would completely disprove that. It seemed a little weird that you even were willing to entertain ...
Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear
I never said Journe used ETA movements. That would be idiotic to suggest. Not quite sure of your reason for that obfuscation. But Re FPJ - The question unanswered remains. Did Journe especially in their early days, use some base components from out of hou...
Thanks for clarifying
It did seem odd! Truly! Please let us know if you discover something about early FPJ (or are you talking about Mr. Journe's work prior to "FPJ" the company existing?). I doubt finding the use of a standardized size gear or whatever will be a smoking gun, ...
The early Resonance models used Peseaux 7001 gear trains but
Is this really important considering the singularity of this piece?
Not necessarily, but the question would be what was said of it at the time......
I can't remember back that far, probably "in house"
The same movement has been used in at least four other watches
Girard Perreguax, Louis Vuitton, Ralph Lauren and Speake-Marin. Personally, I would be upset if I spent US$345k on a watch with the same movement as two fashion brands. Nevermind whether the movement is “in house” - that just doesn’t seem right to me. At ...
Thanks for all the details provided !
Interesting to see how the same basis "ebauche" is treated and worked differently depending on the brands. Very personally I like the GP well, using the "Pont d'Or" to sustain the balance wheel. I agree anyway that now with large groups (e.g. LVMH) holdin...
Did you spend 345k on the LF minute repeater??
If so, then complain to LF and please report back to us on how you get on. If not, then leave it to those people to complain if they wish. I agree the statements are a little misleading, but I have seen these images several times now and am starting to fe...
Hmmm ...
Do you think that a collector only has a “right” to post a critique of a watch if he has already purchased the watch? That doesn’t sound like a sensible view to me. (FYI, I own a number of high-value independent watches, and would actually consider buying...
Congratulations to you on your collection!
But we try to keep the tone of forum as we would as gentleman and friends sitting around a table. To mention repeatedly seems to be nothing more than grinding your axe against LF... we all already heard you and saw your pictures! If LF as a brand does not...
That’s because you did defame me
You accused me of having knowledge that I don’t have. When I said I didn’t have that knowledge, you flat out accused me of lying. Me - “3. Can't comment, don't know the business model.” You - “Second, I think you probably can comment on my third point abo...
Truth is a defence to defamation
Your full name is stated in bold font at the top of your public Instagram page. I would never reveal the name of someone who wanted to keep their name private. On your IG page, you have expressly stated that you handled brand new LF watches from a well-kn...
And there you go again
I’ve handled, and photographed, watches from many sources. Quite why you think this would mean I have deep knowlege of brands’ business models is beyond me. I have already stated it is of no interest to me. And yet AGAIN you accuse me of lying. And my Ins...
I believe credibility and reputation are key success factors for luxury brands that aim at a conoisseurs' clientele.
LF website clearly reports Mr. LF himself words: "Each of our developments, from conception through assembly, is made in our geneva workshops." Even though the notion of "in-house" is not well defined and I guess there is space to play, carefulness must b...
i think "in house" means
developed in house then all the components are sent to fabrication to respective subcontractors, which is fair cause you don't need to buy all the cnc machines etc to produce 500 watches a year, and finally if you control all the process i don't see any p...
Thanks Tyler for defining more clearly the meaning of in-house and I completely agree on all your subsequent points.
I am a fan of LF and expecially of the micro rotor movement and its finish is one of the best I've seen in reality. I actually hope to own one in the future. I'm just wondering, since I'm not an expert, for the sake of knowledge, if your definition of "in...
first things first
in a watch there are 2 different things, one is the movement and the other one is the "habillage"(case, dials, straps, buckles etc) for the movement serious swiss watchmakers are doing their components themselves or outsourced but in switzerland, to me, i...
I agree
It would be best to delete this thread. Apologies that it has become so ugly. I guess watches inspire strong emotions.