eric.vonschonberg
403
one thing not to forget
You're right about even Patek not selling and even 5970P being
turned down (some say the hands have poor contrast against the
black dial), but one thing to remember is that the big boys like
Patek have the reserves to last through the downturn. In fact,
it's actually downturns that help firms like Patek in the long run,
bacause its smaller competitors die off. It's hard to say how
RM will do. For sure they are in a more precarious position
relative Patek. But, since AP owns 10%, it's not hard to imagine
AP potentially owning 100% if things get really tough. Since AP
is one of the big three of Switzerland (Patek, Vacheron, and AP),
AP will likely be one of the survivors of the downturn.
Eric von Schonberg
How will the economy affect Richard Mille?
Pretty much across all watch brands, people are selling their 2nd hand watches for increasingly lower prices. Even the most elite brands, like Patek, have seen their grail watch, the 5970, drop from approaching the $200K mark in 2008 to now approaching $1...
All brands will have to prove themselves very soon
Eric, Personally I think most brands are ignoring this issue with the hope that it will go away i.e. economy recovers. Recent price rises have been totally unjustified and most watches are in my view at least 20% too expensive. Most don't like to admit it...
I figure RM needs to cut prices 35%
I agree that RM's watches are innovative and I also hope they survive. But, I haven't yet seen them responding to the crisis. Right now, they must be experiencing lots of competition with the 2nd hand market. Under normal situations, a RM retailer may dis...
Eric, Please keep our Forum Rules in mind...
Hello Eric, Discussion of discounting and pricing is not allowed on any of the forums. Please keep our Guidelines in mind while posting. Thank you for understanding. -MW
This is something that applies to all markets at the current time
and not just high-end watches. Think of the car industry at the current time - the luxury higher end are actually weathering the storm a little better than the everyday examples. Here is my conjecture (and that is all it is) on Richard Mille watches. As f...
that may be, but
You won't find me selling my RM004 for 40% of list. I'm sure there are people who have to sell. But, their need to sell may be more a need for cash in this downturn, rather than a reflection of Richard Mille watches. I'm sure there are lots of others like...
Willing buyer...willing seller
The Economic downturn is global.............as much as selling prices of RM has dropped , so has Patek , Lange and AP etc etc One must also understand that tens of millions know of Patek , Rolex etc ........only a fraction of that know of RM..........it i...
What makes RM004 the finest chrono ever?
Since I have a RM004, it's good to hear such positive evaluation of it. I'm interested in hearing what were the reasons why it is considered the finest chrono ever. I like it, but I've also heard other chronos, such as the Datograph, called the finest chr...
a bit off topic ...
While it's a good question, it's a bit off topic. Maybe you should post it in a separate thread. I'm not sure why RM004 would be considered the finest chrono ever. I suspect that if you post this as a question, you will not get many good reasons. Most lik...
in case a tidbit here or there might've escaped your all-seeing eye
I feel foolish trying to tell anything to someone who obviously knows everything, but hope springs eternal. www.network54.com richardmille.watchprosite.com And a quick search of Revolution/Horomundi (try "Giulio Papi RM004") will find some further details...
ei8htohms, here's something you've missed about the RM004
When you do the search on Google you're suggesting, you will find this article discussing what is innovative about the RM004 rattrapante mechanism: www.revolution-press.com Note in particular the sketch which is labeled with the following text: "A quick s...
you really don't understand what you're looking at
Hello Eric, The reset portion of the chronograph mechanism is basically traditional, and uses a heart cam which you can see in the pictures. It is only the rattrapante reset portion that has been redesigned with the rack and pinion coupled with the helica...
Eric - just so you know - ei8htohms here is a long standing
member of this community, a trained professional in watchmaking, and I think you really on a losing argument. While I do not take ei8htohms advice or argument as gospel, I do pay close attention to what he writes as I know he knows what he is looking at w...
not true
I have looked carefully on my RM004 and the simplified rattrapante mechanism illustrated in that figure really does exist. It may not be obvious on photos, but if you look carefully through the display back you can see the small spring illustrated in the ...
Eric - I'm going to take you up on that challenge
You seem very confident, but I think you're underestimating the RM004. I'm going to accept your challenge! Greg
one thing not to forget
You're right about even Patek not selling and even 5970P being turned down (some say the hands have poor contrast against the black dial), but one thing to remember is that the big boys like Patek have the reserves to last through the downturn. In fact, i...
Eric - I am assuming in all of this that you have
intimate knowledge of the various firms cash flows, sales and cost data, and profits? In which case, you might want to check your statements a little. I know a fair number of watch brands, their chief executives, and brand owners. This is not what I am to...
My two cents.
First I must say I do not have the contacts in these watch companys as eric obviously does knowing all of the inside financial information which company can handle this ecominic downturn compared to another one. I have spoken to three dealers regarding Ri...
Hey Jose.....
sorry....couldnt resist that Just got of the phone with RM himself , i will post something in the next 2 weeks as i will be travelling.................something that will be of GREAT interest to RM004 owners or potential owners..... Enjoy your RM.
you're missing the point ...
My point is that RMs on the secondary market sell for 40% of list. That's so low that it's got to be costing RM lots of sales. If the $200,000 RM on your wrist can be bought on the secondary market for $80,000 lots of people will opt to buy on the seconda...
I do not agree
I very much doubt that i will ever see a RM14 for sale in the secondary market for $80,000 if I do i will repost and say you are a genius untill then I believe your way off.
Richard Mille sells for 40% of list on secondary market, so a RM014 ...
That has a list price of 200K would net you $80K. Take a look for yourself at the Richard Milles sold on collector's market on this web site. They go for 40% of list. There has not been a RM014 sold yet, but when the first one sells it will either sell fo...
Now why would a smart man like Richard Mille
drop the price of the new watches, ripping the support out of the secondary market at the price point it is now, and lose the customer base he has????? Your whole analysis is based on the proposition that everyone no longer has the income, nor desire, to ...
don't need any of that
I don't have any of those contacts or any of the information you mention, but I don't need it either. I've provided all the reasoning and intuitions above that I used to decide that RM needs to drop prices to keep his business viable. Eric von Schonberg
So by your own admittence, that's 3 data points.... out of the thousands
of Richard Mille watches out there.... okay then! Andrew H
no that's 3 data points out of a few dozen at most
There may be thousands of customers who have bought Richard Mille watches. But, only a very small fraction of such customers post on this forum. If all customers of Richard Milles posted their experiences on this forum you'd have a point. Eric von Schonbe...