Breguet

Afternoon everyone and a belated Happy New Year to you all; I hope 2008 is shaping up fine for everyone thus far.  I have a question that I'm hoping ya'll can help with:

As silly as this sounds, are Breguets handmade?  I ask because I'm interested in either a Patek or a Breguet and don't know which way to lean.  I'm just beginning my research on Breguets but I'm really quite taken with the 3680BB, and the 5207BA...there's just something really special about them in my opinion.

Anyway, I know of Patek's reliability and workmanship, (my parents both wear them), but what of Breguet?  Can someone help with just a quick primer on how a Breguet is manufactured?  I know an A. Lange is handmade and assembled twice, does Breguet compare workmanship for workmanship?  Everyone's thoughts are most sincerely appreciated!  Have a great day, speak soon.  Best.

Chris.

Neither Breguets, Pateks nor Langes are really handmade in the historical sense of the word--IMO, it would be more correct to say that they are hand assembled and, to varying degrees, hand finished.  Most of the top larger houses use CNC machines and other instruments of modern technology to churn out their annual production. Each of Breguet, Patek and Lange use in-house movements (as to Breguet, at least since its acquisition of Nouvelle Lemania, which has been renamed Manufacture Breguet), which is to say that they are properly called Manufactures in the Swiss sense of the word. 

Each of Breguet, Patek and Lange make fine watches, but despite my personal perceptions and prejudices about the movements utilized by them, there is no maker that comes close to Breguet's near-perfect case and dial design aesthetic. Time and again, I find most Breguets to be almost flawless in their homage to A.L. Breguet's eye for design. Look through the Habsburg auction catalogue/book and its easy to see most of the modern Breguets sitting side-by-side with pieces centuries old without a second thought as to whether they belong (save the obvious pocket watch vs. wristwatch difference).

As to my own perceptions of brands and workmanship, I would rank Patek the highest, with Lange second and Breguet third. Patek certainly is the most recognizable name. Breguet is more recognizable that Lange, but IMO Lange makes finer movements. Those are generalizations, and as such they occasionally break down when specific pieces are discussed. For instance, I think the Richard Lange in rose gold is a terrific piece, and one that I'd want over any Patek at a similar price point. And I personally have to admit that I've hesitated and not bought a Breguet simply because my perception was that the movement was not as fine as Patek's...but on the other hand, I feel that pieces like the 5237 are a great value and the ref. 3330/3337 is my favorite Breguet of all time.

In any event, ultimately you need to find a piece that speaks to you. Both the 3680 and the 5207 are nice, though I don't prefer regulator dials on wristwatches--frankly, I don't see the point. But the 3680 is certainly distinctive and of all the regulators, I think the Breguets are the most nicely designed. The 5207 is larger, which may be a consideration depending on wrist size and preferences as to elegance versus wrist "presence"... Not sure how far you want to parse the movements of Breguet, Patek and Lange, but unless you really care, don't let the selection process get too bogged down in the details. Find something that raises your passion, certainly check and ensure that it doesn't disappoint intellectually, and then go for it! Good luck.

John

 

John,

Thank you so much for taking such time to repsond to my question about Patek v. Breguet, I absolutely, sincerely appreciate all of your thoughts.  I agree 100% that you buy the piece that speaks to you, and that at this level of craftsmanship you probably can't go wrong with either Patek or Lange or Breguet.

I really love the simplicity of the Patek Calatrava over the similar design of the Breguet Classique, but I love the 3680 for it's dial finish and complication over either Lange or Patek in that design aesthetic.  Good to know about the handfinishing and hand-assmebly of the pieces, I didn't realize the various houses didn't necessarily machine all of their own parts.  I'm heading out tomorrow to check out the Breguets in person for a better comparison.  I'll keep your thoughts close at hand.

Thanks very much again, have a wonderful evening.  Best.

Chris.

nt

Hi there,

From John's article,he is right to the point in terms of choosing a watch that speak to you.I would like to seconded his point that comparing prices against desire where he pin pointed Richard lange towards any patek prefered.You might be a brilliant collector,who chooses his watch wisely but wiser  if you are a collector who spend his money wisely with passion of course, regardless if he is wealthy or not.

From these years of hunting,i would understand the statement i have put forward above.From my point of view,brand is only a part of it.There are prices,technicality,fineness,personnal criteria(sizes,weight),passion(traditional,modern,sports)and last the most vital(the piece that speak to you).

Conclusion,may be due to the complexity/challange of obtaining the ideal/dream watch,this has caused many intellectuals,professionals,businessmen,and etc to trap in this big&deep world of horology.

BHK9

No message body

see my post from some days ago.  John, your response was incredibly informative and helpful.  Chris, if it helps, I finallly decided on the PP 5196 Calatrava in rose gold, mostly because it "spoke" to me.  It's elegance is in its simplicity, and for me, at that price level, I did want the satisfaction in knowing that it is (or at least has the reputation of being) one of the finest watches made. And I love it.

Having said that, I still have my eye on a Breguet.  Their beauty (case, dial), for me,  is unmatchable.

Good luck...any choice will be a good one!

Ange

Ange,

Thanks much for the thoughts on the Breguet v. Patek debate, I really appreciate that.  I was at my dealer's Saturday and was able to do a side by side comparison of the Patek Calatrava with the hobnail bezel, and the Breguet 5907, both in white gold.  I just love both, but for nearly the same money, (PP was about 3K more), the craftsmanship of the Breguet dial really spoke to me.

And then I had the same dilema you sound like you had...at the 10-15K price point am I better off with the reputation of the PP, or what I consider the more beautiful dial of the Breguet?  Both fit my wrist wonderfully and now I just don't know.  Not really a bad problem to have I must be honest, but a pre-occupation just the same. 

Can you offer further thoughts, I'd be so interested to hear.  I don't plan to sell the watch, but I know with a PP you can almost re-coup what you paid for it...then again, I see a lot of Pateks and not many Breguets running around, so the uniqueness of the 5907 appealed to me as well...

Thanks, speak soon.

Chris.

Hello Chris,

some modest thoughts:

If You consider a 3680 or 5207,the answer is simple:neither Patek nor Lange produces watches like these,not even close to that design.So if You are thrilled by their design You must stay with Breguet.

Reliability should be of no concern,sometimes I had problems with Pateks as well as with Breguets,but mostly my Pateks as well as Breguets work fine(no experiance with Lange).

The pieces You mentioned I would descibe as more "daringly" designed and less conservative as Langes or Pateks,also a bit more fashionable,but one might get tired of fashion of course once.

Movements:well,as discussed some days ago,I would demand from Breguet the same perfection in finissage as PP or Lange shows and I don't think there are huge differences from the aspect a sapphire back shows to me.However,I usually prefer Patek's free sprung Gyromax escapement to Breguet's use of simple Glycydur balance wheels in most of their watches,although this has nothing to do with precision of course.  

The question of hand-made or not was answered already excellently by John.

Of course the "movement-history" of PPs and Langes are mostly "flawless",i.e.pure inhouse-inventions(with the well known exceptions of the two Piguet and Lemania based Patek movements),while Breguet watches (with the exception of La Tradition) often have miscellanious ancestors or inventors,but it depends if one really cares.

Resale value was not asked and also should be of no great importance,as neither Breguets nor simple PPs as the Calatrava line are good after market sellers,great complications is a very different matter of course.

The motives to buy a Breguet often are quite different from buying a PP.Breguet charms by its looks,its magnificent dials,its style,its history,while PP is the more classic sober design,which sometimes is the cleanest way to build a watch,but unfortunately it is very often bought only for pecuniary reasons regarding market-hype and not for its beauty.

kind regards,

Lutz

 

Chris...I know exactly what you're going through....I did the same.  I guess it comes down to what "floats your boat".....In the end, I chose a PP because of my PERCEIVED notion that as a timepiece (i.e.movement, precision, ability to hold its value),  it is the best.....though maybe that's just great marketing by PP.....I don't know.  But I will say that the simple clean almost retro look of the 5196 spoke to me.

But again, on looks alone,I really love the Breguet (5907 or 5157), and I agree with some of the others that I wouldn't worry about it being a huge (if ANY) step down from a PP in terms of movement, craftmanship, etc.

Tough, but in the end you really will enjoy either...but I suspect you might eventually end up with both.....I think I will.

Ange

Good luck....also good comments from Lutz.....

I own neither Patek nor Breguet.  I have examined watches from both brand.  I found Breguet more "romantic" whether you look at the watch or its history.  I also find their watches instantly recognisable for their trade-marks. 

I was torn between the 5906 and PP 5196. My decision was to get the PP 5196 although I was more attracted to the 5907.  The 5196 would get worn more. It looks good with a shirt, sweater, or suit.  The Breguet 5907 is strickly a dress up watch and most at home with a suit or tux.  It's a fine china watch and I wanted something more versatile.  I'll get the 5907 but it's a finishing piece.

I had to read this post a couple of times because it references some of my favorite examples. The first sentence compares a '5906' to a PP 5196. Either my failing vision or onset of dyslexia turned it into 5096 which is one of my very favorite watches (moreso because I'd love to have one or even a PP 3923 and they don't exactly grow on trees like the 3919 seems to). I often compare a PP 5096 with the PP5196 and come back to the 5096 every time.

Now to compare the 5907 with a PP 5196. Now I much prefer the PP presentation in general however, I think the 5907 is much better proportioned matching the movement size to the case size. Given a choice between the two (and considering price as I always do), I prefer the 5907 for it's simplicity but extended (and hidden) power reserve. If it's possible, the PP 5196 is too big for what it is. The 5907 is perfectly sized for what it is. If that makes sense to you, you might be as nuts as I am.

Best,
John
NYC

T'is a long story how I got to own both a Patek 5053 and a Breguet 5920.
I do find that I'm wearing the Breguet more and more. Not only does it have a
100hr power reserve (more useful than you may think) but it is marginally
more regular than the Patek. I think I've never really got used to the egg-shell
color of the Patek dial.