Comments:
Hi All, my "lurker" friend needs your advice. For his milestone birthday, he had wanted a collectible piece. Hence, I researched, suggested and then sourced a 5500P (aka the Pagoda) for him. His questions now are:
1 - how does it look on his wrist ?
2 - how rare and meaningful is this piece in your opinion ?
3 - reasons why would you wear the Pagoda as a daily beater or only for special occasions ?
4 - after wearing it (infrequently), would you think that the Pagoda would lose much value if sold off (assuming that it is purchase at a reasonable price now) ?
5 - other factors that he should consider ?
A bit of background info: My friend has a very small and humble Patek collection. The Pagoda was launched in 1997 when the new building was then unveiled. Its shape takes after the sculpture at the front of the building. The platinum version has 150 pieces whereas other metals have much more.
My lurker friend thank you in advance !
Cheers,
Gordon
2 - how rare and meaningful is this piece in your opinion ?
3 - reasons why would you wear the Pagoda as a daily beater or only for special occasions ?
4 - after wearing it (infrequently), would you think that the Pagoda would lose much value if sold off (assuming that it is purchase at a reasonable price now) ?
5 - other factors that he should consider ?
A bit of background info: My friend has a very small and humble Patek collection. The Pagoda was launched in 1997 when the new building was then unveiled. Its shape takes after the sculpture at the front of the building. The platinum version has 150 pieces whereas other metals have much more.
My lurker friend thank you in advance !
Cheers,
Gordon
My take as first one to answer
Dear Gordon,
I understand that you know well 2 friends (the seller and the potential buyer).
It is quite difficult as each person has his own criteria to add a piece in his collection.
- his style of life
- his others watches
- to wear it in special conditions or not....
- So, I had seen and put a YG version on my wrist and I was surprised to see how the case was exposed to lateral scratches. The Pt version should be less fragile but if scratches with time will need a special PP service.
- Black dial is more adapted for special events (European point of view) and there are less possibility to combine with other strap colors IMHO.
- Being created in 1997, this model is old fashionned (to me), need a full service if not done recently as oils should be dryed.
I am not fan of this reference and its Cal 215 hidden under the case back (good thing) is not my favorite calibre. I do not know if your friend has already a Cal 240. If not, I would suggest to look at one with this Cal.
Finally, the wear on the wrist and the feeling is very personal and no-one could give him the "right" answer.
Will see with pleasure other advices.
Good hunt for your friend and let us know his final choice. A PP for sure ;-))
Best,
Patrickh
Hi Patrickh, many thanks for your frank advice which is exactly what is needed in this situation !
Being the PuristS friend of both the buyer and seller, I need to be independent at the decision point because I brokered the deal as a personal favor to both (the process was enjoyable BTW). They are happy with the terms which represent a win-win, and it is now up to the buyer whether or not he pulls the trigger after thinking through his questions.
Hence, views / experiences from the forum members are great for the potential buyer.
Thanks again !
Cheers,
Gordon
Hence, views / experiences from the forum members are great for the potential buyer.
Thanks again !
Cheers,
Gordon
Distinctive watch, but not for everyday
i own the Pagoda in platinum and it's an extremely special piece. I could wear it with a suit or jeans - day or night. I would worry however about it as an everyday watch.
Hi Michael, thank you for your reply from a...
owner's perspective !
The buyer is kind of feeling that the Pagoda is more for formal attire.
Cheers,
Gordon
The buyer is kind of feeling that the Pagoda is more for formal attire.
Cheers,
Gordon
The Pagoda
Hi Gordon,
That said, I'm not sure if it's a very much sought-after piece as its rarity seems to come from only its special case. It's only a simple 3-hand time only watch and the 215 movement is among the commonest calibers.
My advice is, if your buyer friend is looking for a LE Patek with a special case, he might as well compare the Pagoda with the Ten Days (Ref. 5100). The latter has the 10 days power reserve indicator on the dial, looking more like a complication. The case resembles the a winged manta ray. It has a transparent back showing the beautiful rectangular manual movement (Cal 28-20/220). That said, there are a total of 3,000 examples for this reference, and the market prices are around double of their Pagoda counterparts.
Hope this helps.
Francis
size are different for his small wrist
5100: 33,9mm x 46mm
3969: 28mm x 38mm=my recommendation, but maybe not in Pt due to the higher price. But gold versions could be more casual!
Cheers,
Patrickh
3969: 28mm x 38mm=my recommendation, but maybe not in Pt due to the higher price. But gold versions could be more casual!
Cheers,
Patrickh
Hi Francis, if the 5100P can be obtained at a price less than 2/3 more than the Pagoda, would that ...
be a really good deal in your opinion ?
Cheers,
Gordon
Cheers,
Gordon
Really can't say for sure. It depends on how much you can get for the Pagoda. [nt]
No message body
FYI, the Pagoda price was struck at a level...
...less than what buyers paid in auctions and higher than what sellers got at the end.
Thanks
Gordon
Thanks
Gordon
Hi Gordon!
1. The watch looks fine on his wrist and black dial would be more suitable for a formal occasion.
2.This piece is rare mainly because of the number produced but the movement as many have said is quite common unlike some of the other limited editions. It remains one of the least desirable limited editions of recent times and this is indicated by the used prices.
3. Of all the Pagodas, I actually like the R best as it appears the most elegant of the 4 metals But that is purely my opinion. The height of the case makes this watch not the most practical for daily wear so unless one is very careful, I would not advise it. Yes the P would be harder to scratch than the gold models but still, the watch should be protected by a force field to avoid a close encounter of any type!
4. The P would hold its value primarily due to its rarity (especially if your friend is buying it at a good price).
5. As Francis mentioned the 5100 series with the 10 day power reserve should definitely be considered or even the 3969R (450 pieces) jump hour for the 150th anniversary. The latter in particular I believe will be a good investment as Patek seldom make jump hour watches apart for the 150th and 175th anniversary. And prices to me are terribly undervalued probably due to the size of the case.
2.This piece is rare mainly because of the number produced but the movement as many have said is quite common unlike some of the other limited editions. It remains one of the least desirable limited editions of recent times and this is indicated by the used prices.
3. Of all the Pagodas, I actually like the R best as it appears the most elegant of the 4 metals But that is purely my opinion. The height of the case makes this watch not the most practical for daily wear so unless one is very careful, I would not advise it. Yes the P would be harder to scratch than the gold models but still, the watch should be protected by a force field to avoid a close encounter of any type!
4. The P would hold its value primarily due to its rarity (especially if your friend is buying it at a good price).
5. As Francis mentioned the 5100 series with the 10 day power reserve should definitely be considered or even the 3969R (450 pieces) jump hour for the 150th anniversary. The latter in particular I believe will be a good investment as Patek seldom make jump hour watches apart for the 150th and 175th anniversary. And prices to me are terribly undervalued probably due to the size of the case.
Hi Sham, thank you for your views ! What do you think about the Pagoda vs the Manta Ray given
the pricing information I gave in my replies to Francis ?
Cheers,
Gordon
Cheers,
Gordon
In terms of complexity of movement
I would say that the 5100P is definitely at least twice as superior as the 5500P. I cannot comment on the complexity of making the pagoda case compared to the manta ray. Based on this I would say that a 5100P at two thirds of a price higher than the 5500P would seem a good buy. Saying that, for that amount of money, one should seriously consider a 3970P or even the new 5170P!!
Very elegant watch for special occasion Glau....
I think all Pateks' are collectible. If it would be the only Patek Philippe he owns I would go with something like Annual Calendar or a Aquanaut. Something to wear everyday if you feel like it and to hold in the box if not.
Best Regards Edward
Thank you Edward for your thoughts ! IMO, the Pagoda definitely
would be suitable for certain occasions (work with suits/business casual and parties).
Cheers,
Gordon
Cheers,
Gordon
Yes, I agree this is a watch for all occasions...
and a show of good taste. I am sure he would love it. Best Edward
Having never seen a plat model ( I have the YG model and wear it occasionally)
The model wears large and high off the wrist
I have never had a big issue with scratches
I think if he loves it - go for it but I suspect he may find it spending more time off his wrist than onion he is not totally smitten
Me I just love these pieces!!
Julian
Hi Julian, thank you for your feedback as a owner !
The yellow gold looks regal !
Did the YG come with a black strap ?
Cheers,
Gordon
Did the YG come with a black strap ?
Cheers,
Gordon
I like these shaped Pateks quite much
I would like to have one. It has a very unique character, a special flavor and are very interesting to look at.
They have also this less traditional though very classical elegance that define many Patek watches.
Now, when dealing with this type of shape, it is really a question of taste. Much more than for a round watch.
The Pagoda, the 5100 and the 5200 are very interesting in that field and if someone tends to go that route, I think they are excellent choices.
I must say that I don't really know what their prices are and won't compare the watches on that level.
I would say that the main criteria would be how I like them on an aesthetical standpoint. Thus the movement would be less important than for a round watch for me.
The Pagoda has a little old shool vintage touch, the 5200 is more modern and the 5100 stands between both as it has a nice Manta shape but with several modern elements as the movement, the dial layout etc...
The 5500 is 40mm long (150 pieces in P) while the 5100 is 46mm (300 pieces in P). That's a major difference.
I don't know about the collectibility etc.... But I would tend to choose the 5100 or the 5200 as I would take into account the movements. But that's just me and the 5500 would I think look better on the wrist because of its size, especially if I wanted to wear it for dressy events.
I think he should have a look at the 5100 before deciding.
That's a great project
Best, Mark
That's a very good point Mark!
The 5500 is definitely more wearable than the 5100 which is 6mm longer although not as thick as the Pagoda.
Hi Mark, great comments from you !
Definitely food for thought on the selection process.
Cheers,
Gordon
Cheers,
Gordon
Thanks ch9698 for the nice photos !
Your garden watch photos are excellent !
Cheers,
Gordon
Cheers,
Gordon
Thank you all for your useful comments ! After reading your replies, my lurker friend decided to ...
NOT buy the Pagodas P.
Main reason being that, although he likes the watch, he felt that it was too elegant for him to enjoy often. He was also worried about damaging it.
Thanks Gordon for the update.
wise decision and besides, quite a lot of money for a simple watch with no complications even though it is rare. I have the same problem with the 3960G and 3960P which are great looking watches but I will be paying over the top for rarity!