Comments:
Can We Talk Perpetuals?
Interested in getting purists thoughts on the 5320 and the 5327 perpetual calendars.
I've seen the 5327 in the metal - I found it a bit busy, and the case too large, especially for the movement.
Have not seen the 5320 in person - have others? From pics it feels forced retro, almost like a Shinola type design.
These two flagship models give me pause about the direction Patek is going.
Would love to hear how purists feel about these two models.
Best, Gary
The 5320 grew on me.
I saw it in NYC. It's a nice, simple design. Uncluttered. Nothing but positives from me.
Mine is on order ....
I have been willing to offer myself a nice gift ... tried several PC @Patek vendome, and i had the same feeling, 5327 is very nice but a bit messy and hard to read.
I had the chance to see and try the 5320 at a special event related to perpetual calendars..
Since then i have "ordered" mine, i hope it will be available by the end of the year...
Quick iphone photo below
Patek 5320 Christophe
Patek 5320 Christophe
Congrats!
Chris - thanks for your note and the wrist shot. Congrats on your purchase. Wear it in good health! Gary
Thanks
Padj - thanks for the response - good to hear from someone who's seen it live.
Best, Gary
Best, Gary
5327 and 5320 QP
I have my opinion about both watches but I must say from your post that it doesn't seem to be watches you're really attracted by. There seems to be several aspects that don't make you love them enough to justify the move.
However, here are 3 links I made about the 5327 ( www.watchprosite.com
), the 5320 before I could try it ( www.watchprosite.com
) and a small feedback after I could see it ( www.watchprosite.com
).
They have all what makes a great Patek QP, even if the 5320 has yet to prove it on the longer run as a totally new reference. The case of the 5327, borrowed to the 5227 Calatrava, is also a beautiful watch, balanced and in the line of what are traditional QPs for the brand.
From what I see in your question, the size and dial simplicity seem to be 2 important criteria, hence, you would certainly be more attracted by a previous model as the 5140 or 3940. You also have the 5940 is a cushion shaped case, very elegant and more original than a round watch.
There are also the 5159 models and 5140P Anthracite dial that is still in the catalogue. Quite a nice array of models to choose from.
For such brand, anytime something new appears (new dials, new numerals, new sizes, colrs etc...), people might need time as they evolve in a way or another. It goes simpler, more busy, thicker, thinner, changing subdials places, fonts style or size etc...
That's why one needs time to understand a watch. However, if after a while there are elements that doesn't fit, then, it may not be for you.
Best, Mark
Thoughtful Resoonse
Dear Mark -
Your response, including the links to your earlier posts is precisely what I was looking for.
I want to think about where these new QP's fit in Patek history, and where they indicate Patek may be headed.
Patek is a very special brand - It is not about leading edge movement technology, not about accuracy of timekeeping, not about customer service, not about price points.
When all is said and done, for me, Patek is about emotion and history.
I hate to sound like the print ads - but my Dad wore Patek - as do I, and as I look for new watches to buy, that family connection keeps my eye on Patek and how it is developing, especially as the generational page has turned for Patek management.
It strikes me that the QP has for the past few decades been the flagship for Patek - indeed we have all read the quotes from Mr Stern indicating that the 3940 may have been the watch that kept Patek going during difficult economic times.
So, when Patek changes the QP line, for me, it is a significant event.
And Mark, I agree with you fully - it takes time, even years, to understand how a new model fits into perspective and to history and to understand it.
With all of that said, we each express our initial impressions, with the understanding that over the years, one's persoective on a model will change.
With respect to the new QP's, there are element of each that i like.
I agree with your affection for the use of the 5227 case (albeit sans caseback) in the 5327. An elegant touch.
And I like simple treatment and logical placement of the day/month/date indicators on the 5320.
But for me, the initial overall feeling of these two new QP's is not positive.
The 5327 dial is a busy affair - the breguet numerals, large subdials and leaf hands do not come together - for me they clash.
Maybe that's because I'm so accustomed to the solemnity of the 3940/5140 look, and need time to adjust.
The 5320 is a departure. I note your comments on the case - so, I obviously have to reserve judgment until I see it live. I like the simplicity and placement of the day/month/date/leap year indicators.
i understand that there is Patek historical precedent for the syringe hands, and of course for the placement of the day/month/date/leap year indicators - but the 5320 struck me, at least from pictures, as forced vintage (I apologize for the Shinola reference in my post - likely the first time that brand has been mentioned in any discussion of Patek!).
So, I register my initial concern with Patek QP development. Maybe it's just the change of taste from generation to generation - maybe I am out of step.
I do note your praise for the new 5930 - the photos are intriguing. Need to see it in person - I hope I fall for it so that I can get re-energized for Patek.
Once again, Mark, many thanks for your thoughtful response.
Best, Gary
No problem Gary and thanks for detailing your feeling about this
This is what makes discussions between us all here interesting and making our own tastes and perspectives evolve 
Best, Mark
Hi Gary
I have tried on the 5320 and even though it is 40mm compared to the 39mm of 5327, it actually wears smaller. It is one of the very few 40mm watches that I felt comfortably with. But the main question is whether you like the dial layout. I too am not too keen on the 5327 as I feel it is a less attractive watch than the 5140 and 3940. I love Breguet numerals but like you, I do not appreciate watches that have grown larger in case size but retain the same movement size. A movement should fill the case as much as possible or else it should not be displayed - again my opinion. Also, with the 5327, the emphasis in the increased size seems to be to accommodate the Breguet numerals rather than making the sub dials more legible which they clearly are not.
I think the 5320 is a great value perpetual calendar and I was quite surprised by its pricing being a novelty and due its instant popularity. Go for it and I believe you will be suitably pleased!
Hey Gary.....
........i think we can own watches for many reasons. A family history is perhaps one of many, but also a very important one. For sure, I own JLC entirely because my father wore one. So my question to you is more about why focus on perpetual? If your dad used to wear a perpetual, then OK, the answer is clear. But if he didn't, then you have the entire range of Patek Philippe to choose from, and also not just modern but vintage too. You could find a vintage from your father's era. Or you could find a modern rendition of the watch that your father used to wear. There are many options. Like you, I think the perpetual is a superb reference, but there are many alternatives. It did seem to me that you were not struck by the modern perpetuals that you mentioned....it would be a shame to take something that was a compromise. In your shoes, i would take a step back and think morer broadly about the entire possibilities.
Hope that helps.
Joe
Hope that helps.
Joe
Question of Direction
Hi Baron - thanks for your note and helpful comments.
I'm not necessarily in the market for a perpetual.
But I think the PP perpetual has a special place in the PP catalog.
New versions of it should have been carefully considered.
Since I have strong reservations about the choices Patek has made for the perpetual, I am concerned about the entire line, and where it may be headed under its new generation of management.
I am looking more for a general discussion of where purists see Patek going - will it be able to maintain its place at the peak of watchmaking - I used my concerns about the new perpetuals only as a jumping off point for that larger discussion.
Best, Gary
ah ok.
At Basel, Patek revealed a new movement that it had developed under its Advanced Research department. Every 5 or 6 years, this research department launches a watch that has one or another technological advancement. This year, we saw the reference 5650. The movement is showcased in a cutout dial. The movement has two very key innovations.
i am attaching a post I made... www.watchprosite.com /
Bottom line is that this new movement innovation could be a game-changer for Patek Philippe. It creates a movement that is not only more accurate than the recently heralded Rolex movement, but also more robust and reliable. It is a self-winding watch that is theoretically more accurate than a tourbillon. To my mind, Patek are showing every sign of leading the pack on technological shifts. In particular, I believe these recent patents will increasingly dominate Patek movements.
One of your questions is about the future direction of teh company under the current management. I think this is a good question. To my mind, the brand is being taken from a position of strength to an even stronger positon. Take the 5370P....many consider this to be one of the finest most beautifully finished watches made by Patek in the last 30 years. Take a look at the Minute Repeater World that was released in the New York exhibition. These are stunning watches that are showing Patek playing at the top of their game. Enamel world time watches of stunning beauty.....most will agree the most beautiful WT of the genre. WT with chronographs. On and one the list goes.
Many people seem to criticise the company because it has broadened its customer base. It is definitely true that within Patek there are now many "levels" of ownership. That may differ from its history. But take a look also at the achievements of teh company...leading the vanguard. I think modern Patek is perhaps THE most interesting manufacturer around today. Whereas others have seemingly lost their way, Patek are producing some incredibly interesting watches.
Obviously, this is a personal view, but I think the proof is in the pudding.
Best
Joe
i am attaching a post I made... www.watchprosite.com /
Bottom line is that this new movement innovation could be a game-changer for Patek Philippe. It creates a movement that is not only more accurate than the recently heralded Rolex movement, but also more robust and reliable. It is a self-winding watch that is theoretically more accurate than a tourbillon. To my mind, Patek are showing every sign of leading the pack on technological shifts. In particular, I believe these recent patents will increasingly dominate Patek movements.
One of your questions is about the future direction of teh company under the current management. I think this is a good question. To my mind, the brand is being taken from a position of strength to an even stronger positon. Take the 5370P....many consider this to be one of the finest most beautifully finished watches made by Patek in the last 30 years. Take a look at the Minute Repeater World that was released in the New York exhibition. These are stunning watches that are showing Patek playing at the top of their game. Enamel world time watches of stunning beauty.....most will agree the most beautiful WT of the genre. WT with chronographs. On and one the list goes.
Many people seem to criticise the company because it has broadened its customer base. It is definitely true that within Patek there are now many "levels" of ownership. That may differ from its history. But take a look also at the achievements of teh company...leading the vanguard. I think modern Patek is perhaps THE most interesting manufacturer around today. Whereas others have seemingly lost their way, Patek are producing some incredibly interesting watches.
Obviously, this is a personal view, but I think the proof is in the pudding.
Best
Joe
Interesting
Joe - thanks for the message.
Good to hear about tech advances from Patek - those of us with older models know that Pateks don't always keep the greatest time!!
As far as movements, Omega has developed a highly anti-magnetic movement (increasingly important with touch screens) , with METAS accuracy - it is getting strong reviews. I hope Patek can top it.
Yes, I believe Patek will be able to dominate the ultra high end - I just worry about the models I'm seeing in the under $100k price range.
Best, Gary
Technology
Joe - thanks for the message.
Good to hear about tech advances from Patek - those of us with older models know that Pateks don't always keep the greatest time!!
As far as movements, Omega has developed a highly anti-magnetic movement (increasingly important with touch screens) , with METAS accuracy - it is getting strong reviews. I hope Patek can top it.
Yes, I believe Patek will be able to dominate the ultra high end - I just worry about the models I'm seeing in the under $100k price range.
Best, Gary
Hi Gary, After having handled the 5320 at a Patek event, I liked it even more than I had when I first saw the photo ! Most lovely part is the...
3 tiered lugs ! The cream dial would IMO match better with a rose or yellow gold to give it more of a vintage feel.
In terms of its Patek's direction, it is a natural evolution of a leader to expand its customer base with both higher and lower end products. An analogy is that BMW and Mercedes have over the years expanded into lower end and higher end cars respectively such as 1 series and 7 series and A to S classes. Hence, Patek now has the enamel Worldtime MR to ensure that it wins at the top end and simple Calatrava/Aquanaut at the bottom.
The new management has produced some controversial pieces such as 5524 Pilot and 5960 with a white dial with red hands & bracelet when they were launched. After a while, they became more popular. TS has a tough act to follow and it seems that he is gradually gaining ground with the NY Exhibition with the enamel Worldtime MR. I think that we should give the new team more time before passing final judgement.
Cheers,
Gordon
In terms of its Patek's direction, it is a natural evolution of a leader to expand its customer base with both higher and lower end products. An analogy is that BMW and Mercedes have over the years expanded into lower end and higher end cars respectively such as 1 series and 7 series and A to S classes. Hence, Patek now has the enamel Worldtime MR to ensure that it wins at the top end and simple Calatrava/Aquanaut at the bottom.
The new management has produced some controversial pieces such as 5524 Pilot and 5960 with a white dial with red hands & bracelet when they were launched. After a while, they became more popular. TS has a tough act to follow and it seems that he is gradually gaining ground with the NY Exhibition with the enamel Worldtime MR. I think that we should give the new team more time before passing final judgement.
Cheers,
Gordon
I agree
the 5327 just does not have much going for it. Dial and size just seem wrong to me. The 5320 is the one I look to see and may obtain at some point. I am thinking the cream dial may be a bit shiny from the photos. The watch would be a real winner in a traditional dauphine hands with white stick dial or maybe a salmon stick dial.
Good thoughts
thanks for your note, watcher.
Interesting thoughts on improving the 5320 - but I wish Patek had come up with a model that we didn't think needed improvement!
But, I am heeding Mark's words - we need to give ourselves time to understand and see where these new perpetuals fit.
Best, Gary
Saw the 5320 in Geneva Salon.
It is a thing of beauty and well worth seeing in the metal. The lugs, for example, are exquisite. As to the future, it has potential as a canvas - different hands, numerals/batons and dial colours are all possibilities because it is a complicated watch that hides its complexity very well.