Patek Philippe

I decided to buy  my first Patek watch.  Thought is was as simple as going to the  AD, negotiating a price, and taking it home.  Then as i did more reading, I got more confused.  What are grey market dealers?  A  reputable (national) watch store told me that while they're not an AD for PP, they can sell me a PP without papers or certificate, but that they aren't used.....same confusion in looking at the collector's market forum on this site.

I guess the bottom line questions  are...... what's the best way to buy a Patek (or other high end watch?)  and what should I avoid?  How (or can) I negotiate a price with an AD

Thanks

AD: Authorized Dealer.  They are contractually bound to the brand, so there are limits to their price flexibility.   They are also required to (usually) buy a certian number of watches per year, to keep their status. 
Gray Market: a non-authorized dealer.  They usually get their watches from the AD, from each other, or from regular people.  They can range from the "better than AD" in terms of  service and customer satisfaction, to "barely not getting sued".   Frequently the same dealer will have a new and used watches, sometimes even of the same watch.  They also vary in terms of papers, sometimes the watch comes with "box and papers" sometimes not.  Also some will warrenty the watch internally, which is quite nice, as whether the factory will honor opened papers is kinda a crap shoot sometimes(I've never dealt with PP, speaking about brands in general).

So the summary is: the AD is the 'easy' way, if they have the watch that you want.  You'll pay more, but there is less worry.  They may also give some perks, mine has an annual party with free food and all the brand reps to chat with.

the Gray market will almost always be cheaper, but you have to do your homework with regards to dealers.  Many will also buy and sell, so if 1 year from now, you want someting different, they'll take last years watch towards this years purchase.

so it's a gamble: if MSRP-%(off at GM)+%(chance of repair not under warranty)*(cost of warranty)+worry-(reliability of GM) < MSRP by 'enough'
buy at the gray market.  If you worry about such things, then no price is low enough, same for a unreliable dealer.  For me, the price difference is more than the repair and the worry, but that's not everybody.

There's also the issue of location.  For Patek, my local AD is pretty bad, maybe 15-20 pateks in stock, normally nothing more complicated than the 5035/5146, whereas my local GM must have 60 in stock, including a pile of Perpetual Cals and some interesting vintage stuff, including a vintage Rattapante Pocket watch, that I'm going to post some pictures of, as a present to anyone brave enough to read this entire thing

Aaron

Your information and considerations about the pros and cons of buying from an AD versus on the gray market were very helpful.  I enjoyed the beautiful pictures of the vintage Patek pocket watch.  Thanks for sharing!
m

Aaron, thanks for all the insight...I'm starting to understand, but... what does a GM watch NOT have that one from an AD does....specifically, serial numbers, certificate and....does a watch from a GM hold its value equally over time as much as an AD watch
I don't mind the warrenty issue, but I am concerned about authenticity and long term value

Again thanks a ton.

In the days of yore, (C. 2000) there were rumors that if you bought a gray-market watch from the internet, it would have the serial-numbers filed off.  I never saw this, nor actually saw a post by someone that had, it was more "be careful, my friend said this one time...."  I don't know if it ever happened, but I've never seen it, nor has anyone posted anything to that effect recently.  As for value, I think that a GM watch can sometimes hold it's value better, as there isn't that initial depreciation from MSRP to market, so even if a GM watch sells for a few % less on the secondary(not saying that it does, but even if) the drop is still smaller.  WRT boxes and papers, it depends.  Some dealers never have them, some do.  I think most would fall in the middle, having BP for some, and charging less without them.

As for authenticity, none of the reputable dealers would ever knowingly sell a fake, the risk is too high.  Someone with a store, or even severl years of history behind a website is not going to blow that commercial good-will on a fake, the risk is too high and the cost too great.  We can't discuss dealers here, but there are forums where that is possible, or ask for references via PM.  I know people have their favorite dealers, and would be happy to suggest.


Aaron
This time the pictures are of a American Private-Label. The mvmt looks like a patek, but sometimes it is hard to tell.  It was in the collection of a local GM, but has been sold.

could you recommend reputable grey market dealers?  Also, can you comment on what I % discount (if any) that I could negotiate with an AD.  Looking at the 5119 or the 5196 Calatravas.  I've allowed PMs now, so you can send me the info.  Can't thank you enough......

Patek Philippe warranties for your watch only if it is bought from an authorised dealer.

Even if your watch from the gray market has its papers they can not put a valid stamp on them, so the warranty is not valid. In my opinion even a brand new PP could have a problem (that's why warranties exist) and having a valid warranty is useful.

In addition ti this, buying a watch from an authorised dealer allows you to have your name registered in the official archives of PP as the owner of this watch which is quite cool (even if it may not be that important ...).

On the other hand the money issue is undoubtedly not negligeable...

The choice is yours, good luck!

BEE-utiful watch...so cool yet so elegant....congrats