Patek Philippe

or is there an imbalance? Your thoughts, experiences, expectations are greatly appreciated. This message has been edited by Aussie on 2010-09-09 12:36:09

I will attempt to give my assessment, opinions, and experiences.

When I first became a dealer, PP's production was reportedly around 8-10,000 annually. The number of watch makers on staff was 2-3. I don't recall having many issues with the watches then, so the quality level of the watches seemed to be quite high. The only issue I had during the early years was one case where a lady was having problems with moisture entering the case through the crown due to perspiration. The watches were not gasketed for water resistance then as they are now. The speed of service and quality of work was superb. If you wanted a different dial... no problem, different hands... no problem. HSWA went out of their way to assist in any way possible to take care of issues (within reason, of course) to help satisfy the clients needs. Great days indeed. Then Patek the brand and authorized service were on par with each other and for the most part, that continued to be the case until 1989.

1989 seemed to be a pivotal year for Patek, the brand. For the first time, the brand experienced the beginnings of worldwide recognition of their work through record-setting auction prices and the first limited production pieces celebrating the 150th anniversary. Even then, I believe the brand and the service were on par with each other.

Shortly thereafter though, production levels were increasing and the service department began to be overwhelmed with watches coming in for routine service, pieces being serviced after auctions, etc. It was then that the lead time for service started to become noticeably longer. I don't think PP or HSWA was prepared for this at the time and it took some time to adapt to the situation, still the brand was on par with the quality of service being superior, just a longer wait.

The issues with respect to service lead times improved, but production was increasing and still more auction pieces and interest in older vintage models still kept the rubber band stretched mighty tight in the service department.

When reported production levels went beyond the 30,000 mark, It was then that I began to notice an increase in new watches having some issues out of the box, not a lot, but noticeably more than in the past. I would think it was at this time you could see a difference between the brand and service develop. Or maybe, we saw Patek-Philippe being groomed and presented to the world as a brand (in very much the same manner as the other big watch brands). Dealer contracts appeared for the first time (was not a good sign)

Coming to 2008, production levels exceed 40,000 pieces and Patek was being marketed in a way as never before and people were acquiring watches as never before. Things changed at Patek, the brand. New rules and regulations, no dial changes, etc. It seemed the once family business had come to the big time and things were going to be done by a strict set of rules without too much acknowledgment of gray areas or accommodating client's special requests. It seemed that instead being grateful to have someone wanting to buy a Patek, it was as though you should be grateful for PP allowing you to buy it (this may seem harsh, but that is the impression I got). Dealers were charging premiums for pieces or making folks buy several pieces in order to get the watch they really wanted or having to submit an application to be considered for a particular model, but he most significant issue though were the number of new pieces having problems and the distance widen with respect to Patek the brand and Patek service, with the brand having quality issues that service ultimately had to deal with. Needless to say, the burden of this popularity explosion was felt by service and through it all, they seem to be holding the course. I think the brand got lost somewhere in this and money, image, marketing, etc. has been largely responsible. So, in my opinion, the brand and service are not on par.

I miss the Patek of 27 years ago and look at those times with fondness. Maybe this economic mess will allow Patek the brand to recognize what qualities brought them to the party and who helped them get there. It (success) came so quickly to Patek and all the problems associated with that success (some handled well, some handled poorly), I think it was overwhelming to a company whose business had never really experienced such a thing before. I suspect it can fade just as quickly.

If this is hard to understand, it's because I can't type near as fast as I think and there are a lot of things that occurred during my 27 year experience with Patek the brand and Patek service.

Whit, thanks for the comments!  Reading the perspective of someone with 27 years' experience is very helpful.  One point (among many) that I found particularly interesting, and had never thought about before: it's good to know when the major auctions occur, so that I can take my watch in for routine service a few weeks BEFORE a major auction, not right after.

when collectors take their new acquisitions in for service, so be mindful of the dates. I believe the folks in service do an outstanding job given the circumstances, they sometimes don't get the recognition for the job they due.

Thank you for the very interesting info.

 

At the 30,000 watch level when you saw more new watches needing work, do you recall if they tended to be more complicated watches?

Did you find that as a %, when 30,000 or 40,000 watches were sold, did the % complicated watches increase compared to when 8,000 to 10,000 watches were being sold?

 

percentage of the pieces sold and base my experience solely on those numbers.

As I recall, there was not any clear indication of complicated pieces demanding more attention than basic manual or automatic wind pieces when production was at the 8-10,000 level, I had almost no issues with any watches at that time with the noticeable exception of a lady's watch with regards to a moisture problem (perspiration). At the 30-40,000 level, I noticed a more dramatic increase of service issues with new pieces, more basic pieces needing attention than complicated pieces.

Very early on, I started to build my business (which no one at that time in the area was aware of Patek..it was either Rolex or Timex, so I hope you can see the hurdle I faced. A two-tone Nautilus was $1500 more than a Rolex President) on the complicated pieces, 3940's, 3970's which happened to be really the only two complicated pieces available at the time (1985) and did not experience any problems with them. Representing a relatively small demographic area, we managed to create quite an interest with the complicated pieces and all performed extremely well. Most of my clients wore their watches rather than putting them aside so the experience was associated with pieces that were worn frequently if not constantly. In fact, one of the 3940's from 1987 just came in for its 3rd service. The case shows the daily wear but the movement has performed beyond what most would consider exceptional and the current estimate is for routine work only. I can definitely attest to the reliability of the 240Q's performance.

To your second question, when the 30-40,000 level came to be, I received less complicated watches than I did at lower production levels. In the mid-eighties, I remember one year where we sold 16-18 3940's and 3-4 3970's which was a lot for my area. From 2007-2009, I received one 5146, one 5980, and two 5960's (stock pieces). Of course, this was PP's heyday and the most popular man's watch was the 5146 (in terms of production/demand). In terms of the overall % of complicated pieces, remember there were only two models available for the longest time until the 5015 showed up with moon-phase/power reserve (does not include the 150th Anniversary Jump Hour which Patek did consider to be a complicated piece). At the 30-40,000 mark, there are probably 30+ pieces in the collection, so yes the % of complicated pieces increased dramatically.

That's a pretty long winded answer for your question and I hope I answered it. I would suspect other dealers may have had different experiences.

...the quality has gone with the newer production models and I know of one case where a customer had problems with all three watches he purchased and I also know watchmakers who have been sent new models still under warranty for repair by dealers because the watches have been back to patek many times and come back with the same problems and from what I hear are very basic problems.

I posted here a few days ago regarding poor service and spares support faced by me as a vintage Patek owner in India,
This came after reaching out to Patek through their website over a prolonged duration for fair solutions, which they were unable as well as unwilling to provide. These are problems faced not just by me as an individual, but by this entire market within which Patek operates, and has operated and enjoyed sales within over several decades.
So, without getting deeper into the nitty gritty of my individual Patek problems again, having had an unfortunate first hand experience of not receiving good after sales, service and spares support from Patek, I am of the firm opinion that no matter what their past approach, Patek today clearly lacks the right approach towards its clients when some of us require their assistance and support.
Its not too late, and Patek can still acknowledge, address and rectify these matters, but if the company continues with their current insensitive attitude, this will one day catch up with them. Its one thing to hide behind excuses as are, the company now sells too many watches to cater to individuals, that there are too few skilled watchmakers left to cater to the huge influx of watches, etc. but all these will fail to justify or comfort clients when they are let down by a failure of after sales service, for such a high value and premium product.
I as one individual small time collector can move on, reluctantly selling out my few old Pateks, moving to other brands (with better after sales and service) and not buying another PP again. This will not dent Patek, the company in the least, no big deal at all, good riddance perhaps, but word gets around in the end, and that will present problems, such as a ruined reputation which become far more serious, and MUCH harder to repair.
Its simple. Patek sells that many more watches today, Patek makes that much more profit today. It is now Patek's problem to set aside enough of that profit, and put in whatever effort is required to create whatever infrastructure is required to support its increased clients with proper service and spares support when they require it, and where they require it.

I've heard similar experience from dealers in other countries.

- SJX