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Patek Philippe

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Comments:

Patek Service and Lessons from Ferrari.....

 
 By: murcielagoboy : December 16th, 2014-06:50
No-one is doubting the quality of the workmanship and the productive limitations of Mr Stern's business. But ultimately, as a customer of PP,  I must attend to my own business and not Mr Sterns.
No, the greater point I have tried to make in all this is that PP specifically went out and "pitched" the servicing of their watches. There was a dedicated digital advertising campaign where owners were asked to "send back their pieces so Mr Stern could oil them" (metaphorically speaking of course). This marketing simply DOES NOT connect with a situation where a piece will remain untouched for 3-4 MONTHS before a single bit of work is done on it.  In fact, I consider this marketing a type of deliberate misinformation. 

a) People's whole lives change in 6 months.  Why market this service if, you're clearly unable to cope with volumes in an acceptable time?   (and may I remind you we're talking about a 3 year old 5170 which has a few light external marks and where the movement is in continuous current production - we're NOT talking about the full restoration of 1950's one off). And I can confirm my piece was sent to Geneva...

b) why not queue pieces for service which remain in the hands of owners until a "slot" of work becomes available?

c) Warranty repair falls into the same category of waiting and that is even less acceptable.  Putting aside the cost of a piece at this level, a loyal customer is "rewarded" with 6 month wait to correct a fault which should not have occurred in the first place....  

d) I am concerned that there is are three assumptions here, that
i) Typical customers do not wear their pieces very much, so will not miss them for 6 months. 
ii) the customer has no choice. 
iii) We are Patek and the customer will forgive the family-owned company's, let's say, "logistical, inefficiencies" 

These complacent assumptions led to very poor reliability and dreadful service for decades at Ferrari to the point where, in the early 90's, the company was on it's knees. Slowly Luca Di Montezemolo smashed all of them.  Most of all he wanted people to USE their Ferrari - this is the critical difference he made. When your product gets used it necessarily MUST be reliable, it must get serviced, and therefore aftersales must be efficient.  Which means that now, owners purchase a much better made and reliable Ferrari and receive a far better quality service for such a low volume car manufacturer. Now, none of this matters if PP want their pieces locked up in a safe OR if that's what owners normally do (in which case I am no "normal" owner).

Patek is not Ferrari, in fact, PP is a MUCH higher quality product in it's own niche in my opinion, but I sincerely hope that they get the aftersales side of the product offering in line with their products themselves because to not do does hurt loyal customers.  And even though the costs are eye-watering, actually, I was and remain prepared to overlook that aspect completely....


Regards 

MB.
P.P.S  Proud but confused and irritated owner of a 5205g, 5170j and 5270G.

P.S. Oliver - as much as your posts and your insights of PP have been and remain wonderful and informative, I think your "re-welcome" of  me was disgraceful - especially given the posts I've contributed to this forum myself. Murcielagoboy is my son's nickname. Thank you very much.
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PM is on the way.

 
 By: small-luxury-world : December 16th, 2014-09:30
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patek servie

 
 By: shafran : December 16th, 2014-12:41
I agree that a company like Patek, that is considered the cream of the crop should be offering better customer service and turn around time.  They really should be holding your hand through the process. Other watch manufacturers are doing this, why can't Patek?  Look at Journe, AP, Lange.  Their service is stellar.  
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Rolex

 
 By: watch-er : December 17th, 2014-10:54
service is amazing. They reimburse you for postage if its under warranty. They send an email within a week as to the costs and repair. Turn around is about a month or less. They follow up by phone once you have had a chance to wear the watch. Wow, great service can be done. I bet Rolex has a larger volume than PP. Its really where you as a company want to spend your time and money. After service is a huge part of the watch buying/ owning experience. All things being equal I would go with the brand that offers the best reliable after service. Six months for routine service is too long. It makes no sense to me as service should generate a profit so the more you move it the more money you make. Someone wrote here years ago, the service facilities are slow for many manufactures as they overwhelmed by in warranty repairs. Who knows.
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This is a fair comment

 
 By: TS1987 : January 30th, 2015-07:01
You are right in that Rolex has a greater output than PP. Rolex sells more than a million watches annually and has done for some time. Patek does not sell 30 000 annually and that is verified by company tax records.

But let me point this out to you readers. We are Patek customers. I myself have a very nice 5726. And as customers, we expect good service or we go elsewhere. The Ferrari story is quite true. Let me suggest to you this; do you appreciate when you are underpromised and overdelivered and your expectations are exceeded? Well that is not what a stated six month turnaround which becomes a nine month wait is. That's frustration. That's almost time for "A Lange & Sohne is quicker, thinking. And they don't take six months.
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My pleasant experience

 
 By: BrianS : December 29th, 2014-08:31
I had my 5135 serviced/ polished  through the London Patek showroom in Bond St around 1 yr ago. I was initially quoted 12-16 weeks but the service took 6 months. When my watch finally arrived I was given a superb branded gift to make up for any inconvenience caused and also had the price of the polish wiped off the bill. 
The chap in the store was very apologetic and explained it was due to a resourcing issue.
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i agree with you on this one....

 
 By: Fricks : December 20th, 2014-14:29
that the rational way of taking things. Problem is when emotions interfere.
Patek Geneva and Paris have a fantastic service.
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Like your post... Your story comes right on time!

 
 By: Fricks : December 21st, 2014-05:31
... in this end of the year.
I liked the part where you tell us about that scratch and the emotions it triggers every time you see. Its good sometimes to clean and filter the bad things that happen to us, to keep only the good part and look forward. I try to do that every once and while, just click on the "delete" icon > "empty trash", for all events and people that triggers negative feelings or pull me down.

Back to your story, its not very clear what is the work you want to be done on the watch. Just a polish? its 3 yrs old so there is no need for the usual 5yrs maintenance cycle.
From what i can guess from your post, there is something not clear with your dealer. Maybe you should deal straight with Geneva. I had some issues with my 5270G, and i can tell you that no customer service in the world was as good as the one i've experienced... Top notch! Also i am not really a Patek Geneva customer. Bought just 1 watch from them, but not the one that went for repair.

 So clearly, i can tell you there is something not right with your A.D. If i were you i would deal directly with Geneva, for my peace of mind.
About marketing campaigns, you cannot take what happened to you as a counter example. They have dealers all over the world and they are not all as good as they should be, but its like that, you got to find a way around it. I guess all roads lead to Geneva in the end smile

A little friendly advice, as i recall enjoying your past posts... You seem like a real watch lover and PP fan. Don't let such stories blow out of proportions, it might take you away from the essential, your love of your watches. Frustration and anger that can come from dealing with bad customer service is useless and the sooner you get over it, the better. 
Especially that you can solve it by exposing directly your case to Geneva. Write an email, a letter, pick up the phone and call customer service, or even fly there, do whatever you must, but do it yourself, don't count on your A.D. I think you will have much better results
To try to make the best of this situation, I would use this time to wear my other watches, i am sure you must have nice watches that are not getting the wrist time they deserve. 

I hope it will end up well for you, its holiday season 
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Exceptional discussion...

 
 By: watercolors : December 21st, 2014-06:40

I learned a lot. Exclusively that patience is a name of the game in watch collecting especially at the top of the game!

You wait for your baby 9-months and show me one person who mindssmilesmilesmile

Regards

Edward

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Another data point...

 
 By: rcg412 : December 21st, 2014-06:57
I dropped off a first series 3940 for a service at hswa. The first service by PP in almost thirty years. It was sent to Geneva, and I had it back in LESS than five months.

They also said they had to do the leap year upgrade, which I begrudgingly agreed to, and they conveniently forgot to do it!  

Also, I got charged standard grande complication cost... No polishing. 

Best,

Ross


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"9-months"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : December 21st, 2014-09:31
And we didn´t even talk about vintage pieces ... smile

My experience as a collector of fine things/antiques shows that you need lots of patience in general. But it pays back, with lots of pleasure, to those who know.
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Dreading some of my vintage pieces...

 
 By: rcg412 : December 21st, 2014-09:39
especially the 2526!  

I am also thinking more and more for vintage of going to a watchmaker - any experiences?  

(maybe this should be a separate topic?)


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Sound like a good idea ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : December 21st, 2014-09:48
"E;mso-fareast-languagebiggrinE;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">a separate topic?". Thanks and I am looking forward to it.

Oliver
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What a lovely post Fricks. Thank you

 
 By: murcielagoboy : December 29th, 2014-04:32
Fricks,

I think the nicest part of your post was actually how you talked about deleting negative experiences and memories from your past...  This is exactly right my friend.  We all need to do it, in many aspects of our lives.
And it was THIS that was the motivation behind sending my piece back for service.  It would come back looking new, with a new alligator strap - a fresh start and with negativity removed forever... That's what I wanted. And although a service absolutely was not needed (Mechanically the watch appeared to be performing perfectly) I thought I would do it anyway on the basis that the watch would be away for a 12 weeks or so. The rest you know....

I will say that I have an exceptional relationship with my AD who has done some nice things for me in the past. We're actually friends. He was even more disappointed than I was when he relayed back to me the likely wait time. No, my AD has no role to play.  I am tempted to write a letter to Geneva but I feel this would be going over the head of my AD and ultimately I am not experiencing anything which others have not had to endure....

I remain a huge enthusiast, and this will NOT sour my love for fine timepieces and of course Patek.  It won't. 
But, I am an emotional guy, and a PP is, first and foremost, an emotional purchase. In fact the brand itself trades on the emotions related to ownership....So when an owner, driven by an emotional experience, requires a perfectly **reasonable** time frame for something, you can see how things can become a little "heated" if that doesn't happen.

I sincerely wish everyone a happy holiday season and a wonderful 2015.

I've taken to wearing an old 1987 gold Rolex Sub I have. Totally inappropriate in the grey UK cold but it's a little warmth on my wrist!

Regards


MB 




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Thank you for your post....

 
 By: Fricks : December 30th, 2014-14:30
... long time i didn't like a post such as yours even if its not all good news. But i could identify to your story. 
I see that you took out a watch that you wouldn't have worn if your patek was with you. And what a nice watch. Most collectors who have too many watches and not even wrist time for each, have great models that for some reason almost never get any wrist time. Having a piece taken away is a perfect opportunity to give a well worthy piece the time it deserves.
MB, don't disappear on us so long, i've been checking everyday for your re-appearance wink

Wishing you happy holidays and a wonderful year 2015!
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try to be happy

 
 By: watch-fan : January 15th, 2015-19:51
My 5016P had service three time within two years. I mean I cound not wore my 5016P for almost two years.  

My 5961P went to the service twice within warrant.

My 5160J went to the service twice within warrant. 

I still not have my 5160J back. The service told me I can have my watch back in last december. Now it told me maybe the end of January, 2015. It is more than 6 months now.  How do I feel about the service if you ask me? I just have to used to it even I am not happy.  As a result, I am buying less Patek watch to show I am not happy. I don't know  what else can I do? I only bought 4936R and 7175R last year even my ad offered me 5180/1, 5271P, 5217P, 5975R and so on.
This message has been edited by watch-fan on 2015-01-15 19:57:59
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Buying less

 
 By: tom2517 : February 1st, 2015-05:29
Is a great way to protest, that's what I do now too, not buying Pateks. Unfortunately there are plenty of customers out there for Patek that they probably don't care. 
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Update

 
 By: murcielagoboy : January 23rd, 2015-06:17
So gentlemen - a quick update.

My 5170 **may** be returning middle of Feb but no promises.  It was dropped off mid September...
Five months for a case refurbishment.

Just FYI.

Regards and best wishes

MB
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Another update which all PP owners should read:

 
 By: murcielagoboy : February 20th, 2015-04:17
I'm not going to make a comment - neither positive or negative. Please fellow owners, make your own comments in light of the new information.  So let me give you a run down:

September (mid): Sent for service and quoted 12 week turnaround by a very good AD. 

November: I'm sent estimate and told 6 months from there. I say - "forget it - please valet an send back asap"  - Not advised of delivery time.

January (mid): I'm told mid-Feb delivery after valet.

February (early):  I'm told watch will now returned in March.

February (Middle):  I'm told watch has failed a time keeping test after being re-cased. Now the watch's movement/mechanicals are being adjusted. I ask "why not service it if already in bits - it appears they're partially doing so?" -  I'm told that if that happens I can expect the watch back in June 2015.  After hearing that, I just say "send it back working."

This is my experience of Patek Philippe Service.

Kind Regards


MB.






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I know its a pain, however may I ask is that your only watch?

 
 By: stradman : February 20th, 2015-09:03
I don't want to sound snobbish or anything, but anyone that can afford a PP usually has a couple of other watches hanging about, no?
I have been messed around with Rolex in the past as well as IWC so it's probably endemic really of the watch industry. I'm personally not
fazed anymore and just accept things like this happen, But I do have a few watches I can turn to when a watch I am servicing is off....
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Yes I have other watches

 
 By: murcielagoboy : February 21st, 2015-00:51
I'm doing my level best to stay "neutral" in my comments and provide just facts to my fellow purists in all this. So, in answer to your question, yes I have many other watches from Tag, Breitling, quite a few Rolex....

But more interestingly, I also have two more PPs. A 5205 and a 5270. These will also, one day require an overhaul.... 

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Irrelevant

 
 By: keks : February 21st, 2015-04:14
To me it seems irrelevant whether one owns other watches. I own a reasonable number of pieces but would not be happy to separate from any for that long of a period. Especially having the uncertainty of whether it is coming back as promised or delayed by 3-6 months. The uncertainty bit is quite unpleasant.

A standard service which is recommended every 5 years should not take more than a maximum of 3 months. If it is closer to a year it gets borderline ridiculous. If there is a substantial backlog at the manufacturer one should have the option to book time for an overhaul and at least have the ability to wear the watch until it can be serviced. 6-12 months is a very long time to be without something that one enjoys wearing on a regular basis. 
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Patek service

 
 By: nice2guy : February 20th, 2015-11:06
I feel your pain. Stradman was commenting today how bad service times are for watch straps, but here he is questioning why your situation it is such a big deal. I think it is a big deal. It really taints the whole ownership experience. And as you said, when your without a watch for a period of time, you miss it. I totally understand. If you didn't like the watch, you wouldn't miss it. Sort of like a compliment to Patek, so you are totally above board here. Don't feel bad in expressing your feelings. If they are listening, you would actually be doing them (and the rest of us) a big favor.
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The watch strap issue is totally different to servicing so don't confuse this

 
 By: stradman : February 20th, 2015-11:23
Changing a strap takes 10 minutes. Servicing is a lot more complex with many more variables.....Please let's not confuse  the two. 
Furthermore, the strap comment was made with regards  to a NEW watch that is only 3 weeks old........
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I've got it back!

 
 By: murcielagoboy : March 9th, 2015-06:45
So gents, my 5170j is back on my wrist.  

Given on September 26th. Returned to me on March 5th, for a case refurb/valet and movement adjustment to ensure accuracy. Not a full service.

Verdict?
Well, I've added a new alligator strap in brown and it honestly looks brand new,  like the day I got it almost 4 years ago.  It really does look and feel brand new. They even managed to somehow "fill out" a chunky chip/dent in one of the outer lugs.  Am I happy with the result? 10000%.  It's literally perfect. 

PLEASE PP, PLEASE, don't take so long next time....  There's no need!

Regards

MB.








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Gorgeous watch! Well worth the wait... [nt]

 
 By: keks : March 9th, 2015-09:39
No message body
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good news

 
 By: nice2guy : March 10th, 2015-11:38
So happy it's back on your wrist, where is belongs. And thanks for the happy ending to a frustrating situation.
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Good and right on time.....

 
 By: Fricks : March 30th, 2015-04:13
... To help you resist all the new temptations they have thrown at us in basel.
Wear it in good health.
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You're lucky

 
 By: ciaca : March 10th, 2015-17:33
I had to service a 5712 still in the warranty coverage for a problem to the date push corrector and i had to wait TEN MONTHS.
they excused themselves sending me an ashtray (yes, an ashtray...) and extending the warranty period on the service up to two years.
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ashtray?

 
 By: benzng : March 11th, 2015-00:00
that is just wrong. i hope this would be resolve by PP soon.  would you have the same length of service if this would be done in Singapore or say the USA? which country did you had it service?
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