Comments:
My first vintage VC. 4241
Hello All,
This is my very first post. I apologize in advance for my ignorance. I recently acquired what I believe to be a rose gold VC 4241 at auction. Per the auction house the watch would work for 24 hours then stop. I rolled the dice and made the buy. When I received the watch the leather was like cardboard and it only operated for 24 hours before stopping. Visually it appears original, but this is my FIRST vintage watch, so I am nowhere near an expert. I noticed that one of the pushers was stuck, and I tried to depress it fully. Once this was done, the watch has been operating flawlessly for about a week. It may be running a min or so fast per day, but that is completely anecdotal. I have a significant amount of experience with antique leather, and I was able to salvage what I assume is the original band, by hydrating the leather for several days. I am hoping someone can provide any additional insight, confirm or deny my hypotheses, or point me in the direction to gather additional information. I contacted Vacheron initially, because I had planned on getting it serviced, but now that it is seemingly running well I plan on wearing it regularly for the foreseeable future. Please see the attached pics. Thank you in advance!
Welcome to WPS, and sorry you had to go through all of the above after winning the auction! We have a number of VC experts here, I hope someone can provide some useful feedback. Cheers. [nt]
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Thank you!
It could have definitely been worse. I have been dealing with antiques for a while and I was actually pleasantly surprised. I expected to have to send it to VC immediately.
I cant help but want to say thank you for the nice pictures of that lovely
Watch and welcome to the forum!
My sense is the dial's refinished . . .
. . . which, if confirmed by our resident VC experts, should be your guide. If it was represented as authentic but proves otherwise, you might consider returning it.
Cordially,
Art
I would be surprised if it was.
The condition of the rest of the watch appears to be original. Original (or very old and brittle) broken down band, and the pusher was stuck in. It was not represented by the specific type of watch (4241)...etc. I don't think anyone took the time in the past to care for it, which makes me think they wouldn't have bothered to refinish the dial. If you look closely you can see how the numbers on the outer ring are faded or missing. I assume if someone went to refinish it they would have repainted. However, this is my first vintage watch. I have a lot of experience in other high end antiques, but not watches.
My experience is almost entirely with Omega, but . . .
. . . please compare your dial against these images from our files.
You'll find at least three points of reference where they diverge from yours.
I hope our resident experts will be here soon to issue an authoritative opinion.
Art
Excellent Eye....
I see the date numbers on the outer ring are flipped around the circumference starting at 9, the roman numerals are mounted vertically in the three and nine position in the picture you are showing, and the small dial has marks for individual seconds instead of five seconds. I have found images of all three of these features flipped, but no dials that match completely. It is interesting how many different dial variations it looks like there were. Regardless of whether it has been refinished or not, I really like it and plan on wearing it regularly. It is just interesting to understand the history and nuance of such things.
In the first photo, the watch closest to the hand looks like the Don Pancho minute repeater that was auctioned last year.
Did someone here pick it up? Or is that first photo a stock photo.
Ah, I understand now. Yes, that's the VC labeled 'Don Pancho' by . . .
. . . collectors, although I've no idea why.
Vacheron would take good care of this watch if you had it serviced. [nt]
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No doubt....
I am planning on sending it in at some point. I am just really enjoying wearing it at the moment.
Triple Calendars from Vacheron are exquisite. Congratulations and welcome here. [nt]
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A bit of encouraging info....
I took the watch to the high end watch dealer in my area. He opened the back, to get the numbers, and said the watch is completely original. His hypothesis is that is sat in someones drawer for 50 years. I asked if it was OK to run/wear and he said it wouldn't do any damage, he only commented that it may run a little fast, because the lubricant is thick from sitting for years.
Great News!
I finally received the watch back from the VC Boutique yesterday. It looks amazing! They did a great job with it. Here are a couple photos. One with a 4240 from the house collection. Now I just need the new band to arrive!
ca 1945 vintage
Hi. I own multiple vintage VCs from this era. Based on the serial number on the case, this watch was probably produced in 1945. It's important to confirm that the movement serial number is also from 1945, but I couldn't read it in your photos. The case and movement serial numbers will not match.
The buckle is from the 1980s. It looks as thought the buckle may be yellow gold but you indicated that the watch is rose gold. I have seen VC put a more modern buckle on an older watch when they restore a watch and then re-sell it at one of their boutiques. But VC would choose to pair the watch with matching rose gold if they were restoring it. VC still sells 1980s vintage buckles, but not earlier ones.
The strap looks like is made of ostrich. I think that an original strap from 1945 would have been cow leather. If the strap has no branding then I don't think it's VC.
The case and movement appear to be in excellent condition. And teardrop lugs are a classic VC design!
The photos were a bit blurry, but I also guess that the dial may have been refinished. Some good close up photos of the logo and the sub-dial would be helpful. Some of the date numbers appear to be missing some paint. Perhaps there are scratches in the crystal that are making it look like the paint is missing? Is the dial paint smooth, or does it have a texture? Are the black lines of the logo and sub-dial very slightly raised?
Regarding wearing it immediately, if it does not keep time well I would recommend having it serviced before wearing it. Old watches need to be cleaned and oiled periodically, and if they're run with old oil the parts will start to wear out. If it the parts are undamaged, a local (skilled) watchmaker will be able to service it. If it needs replacement parts it will have to go back to VC in Switzerland and will probably cost you double for the service (although it will certainly be serviced well). So, I always stop wearing my watches once they don't keep time well anymore or they stop earlier than normal. That's the signal to send them to the watchmaker.
Thanks for the info!
The abstract came back from 1946, and the numbers line up appropriately for movement and SN.
I actually believe the buckle to be original, not because of my personal knowledge, because when I picked up my watch from the boutique after service/restoration they were kind enough to put a similar 4240 from 1945 next to the 4241. They had identical buckles. It is possible that they put a later buckle on the 4240, but seems unlikely that they would be identical. Also, I have a significant amount of experience dealing with antique leather and restoration. I can promise that the band is much older than the 80's, and it clearly had not been swapped in a very long time, judging by the amount of gunk that was inside the pins...etc. I agree that the band is most probably not original given that it is not branded VC. Also, the pictures are difficult to tell but the clasp is rose gold.
The watch has since been restored by VC. I returned the watch for service/restoration/provenance, because VC would not refinish a watch incorrectly, and it seems like they produced these with many different dial variations. I wanted to make sure it was done correctly. They really did a great job with it! See attached pics next to the 4240 and with an updated band.
Not to worry
Buckles and straps are “consumables” that are replaced many times over the life of a watch which is regularly worn. Here is a previous post on the subject: www.watchprosite.com