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Parmigiani

Neither PP nor Breguet ever used a Parmigiani/Vaucher movement

 
 By: Goldenlutin : July 29th, 2014-15:17
Parmigiani/Vaucher never ever ever produced a movement for PP, Chopard nor Breguet. You must be confusing hair spring and movement. Atokalpa (which also belongs to the group) produces apparently hair spring sfor PP and Chopard too. But this is not a confirmed news and has nothing to do with a complete movement.

OK, thanks for your reply

 
 By: de Owar : July 29th, 2014-22:18
I should've written Richard Mille, Harry Winston and Hermés instead. I'll look after those articles, mainly written after visits at Vaucher in Fleurier, where this info came from. Of course little has been officialy confirmd. But would be also important to mention, that Elwin also produces microcomponents for A. Lange und Söhne, Audemars Piquet, and.... PP. 
Thank you anyway, if someone has other references, please let us know!

+1. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : July 29th, 2014-22:20
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This is an interview with Michel Parmigiani

 
 By: de Owar : July 30th, 2014-06:21
You're right, as for Chopard, production is not mentioned, just movement design. 

people.timezone.com

Vaucher is making movements for 15 brands, PP, Breguet are not among those, but for sure they provide for
Hermés, Corum, RIchard Mille and Harry Winston. I've already seen myself a Harry Winston watch with PF701-like movement. I'd highly appreciate if If anyone else could update the list.

 

I think you can now remove HW as it was bought by SG...

 
 By: Goldenlutin : July 30th, 2014-08:53
In addition to your post it is also important to note that Parmigiani buys (and does therefore not produce itself) most of its complicated movements from Renaud Papi (AP) and Christophe Claret. Parmigiani often forget to mention this smile They even describe (or at least used to describe) the Zenith El Primero as "manufacture" movement on their web page smile

You talk about 15 brands using Vaucher movements. This seems a lot to me. Most must be confidential / very small brands as I never saw so many. Hermès, Corum, RM (only simple movements, the rest is from Renaud Papi) and Parmigiani of course use, at least partly, Vaucher movements.


Swatch and HW

 
 By: de Owar : July 30th, 2014-11:46
You just mentioned that HW was bought by the Swatch Group last year, sad news. But this is also giving more credentials for those, who remain independent. Isn't this sub forum all about them. What I really find fascinating about PARM is how they changed their game in less than 20 years, from el primero calibers to the hegirian calendar. 
This is about Vaucher from David Bredan: "While visiting this Manufacture I could see key components that would later go into watches priced in or above the $50,000-$100,000 range. The reason why some brands prefer not to disclose who they work with is a complex - and rather weird - issue, worthy of a dedicated article. Nonetheless, despite complicated confidentiality agreements and any marketing ideology one can think of, I still consider this to be a bad decision. To keep my reasoning as short as possible, I will just say that the level of professionalism and dedication VMF harnesses during production is something any brand could - and should - be proud of; even if they do not own the company, just co-operate with them. In essence, I just hope that in the future brands will continue to emphasize their merit in creating their own concepts and designs and not shy away from disclosing which high-end manufacture is making the parts that they dreamed up."



Nice review

 
 By: BCHH : July 30th, 2014-13:54
Nice review - the movement used in this watch is the industrialised version of the older Pf full-rotor automatic with the solid gold rotor (caliber designation escapes me now) This one comes with the steel rotor right?

Vaucher does indeed produce for PP - they make the quartz movements in the ladies watches.

As for Chopard, the 1.96 and 4.96 were designed by Michel and to an extent produced by Vaucher/Pf.

Many high-end brands (Lange for example) source components from the group - mainly from Atokalpa and Elwin but also LAB.

As for HW, the Pf701 movement in question is indeed used for the RM033, but altered with titanium bridges.

I can say that Vaucher currently makes for 17 brands, of which 4 brands take up virtually half their production. Many of the remaining brands prefer to keep their relationship with Vaucher confidential, for reasons that are beyond me considering the quality of their production.

And starting this year, a new brand from Singapore will be added to this list, making a total of 18 brands.

THANK YOU BCHH

 
 By: de Owar : July 31st, 2014-02:04
Now this is very clear now, at least as clear as this could be, with so many brands not revealing where components came from.
You're right this comes with the skeletonized steel rotor, the solid golden rotor serves golden case models. While that golden rotor covers a lot of the movement its ornamentation is very nice. I think the PF701 with platinum microrotor and its very nice finish is their best /nicest movement for time only automatic watches. 
I'll try to photograph the movement as well. 


de Owar, I know what you mean...

 
 By: BCHH : July 31st, 2014-15:01
I know what you mean about brands not revealing where components came from.. I know all 17 brands that utilise Vaucher for production but obviously cannot reveal most of them apart from the disclosed ones like Hermes, RM, Corum (golden bridge) etc.

Personally I find this practice somewhat disingenuous in attempting to weave a false image of "in-houseness". For me I have never hidden the fact that my watches solely use components and movements from the five VMF entities - Elwin, Atokalpa, Quadrance, LAB and Vaucher. For dials I use both Quadrance and another supplier, a small atelier that makes hand-painted porcelain dials for me.

Indeed I consider it an advantage to disclose this, considering their high quality. They probably have the highest consistent quality of any watch manufacturer in Switzerland & Germany, in line with other top marques like ALS, VC, PP. 

The gold rotor auto (can't remember the Pf designation but the original Vaucher designation is VMF 4000) is one of their earliest movements, developed in 2001. The steel version in your watch is the industrialised version, introduced two years ago for Pf's steel watches.

I fully agree with you that the Pf701 (VMF 5400) is Parmigiani's best auto movement. I use it myself as the base for my ultra-thin perpetual calendar, and use a 22k gold micro rotor instead as I think it looks better with the rhodium-plated movement while giving up little in terms of density. The Pf701 is not just Parmigiani's best auto caliber but I think one of the best from Switzerland/Germany currently, equipped with the variable inertia (gyromax) no less. I further upgraded the movements in my own watches with the Chronofiable certification for even better performance.

Your watch looks great on your wrist by the way! smile

Thank you again for the great insider info!

 
 By: de Owar : August 1st, 2014-02:42
The term in-house, while being important, is totally overrated and misinterpreted. Great ébauches, with someone's own developments, personal additions can absolutely outperform an in-house movement and can add much more value, than using an unstable, unreliable movement, that was made in the groundfloor. Habring2 comes to my mind as a positive example.  

The term: your own ultrathin perpetual, makes me wonder how great this could be with the Vaucher movement, wouldn't you share more about that? I tried to check your comments to find if you are a watch manufecturer yourself, but I'm puzzledsmile

I totally agree with you

 
 By: BCHH : August 6th, 2014-13:58
I definitely prefer a real watchmaker who modifies and finishes an ebauche, rather than some fake in-house chicanery (a recent fiasco over a young brand's release comes to mind).

Of the former category, watchmakers like Dirk Dornblueth and Pascal Coyon come to mind, who make gorgeous, everyday-type watches at an accessible price.

Ohh, it will be very exciting indeed! I've sent you more info via PM.

I wouldn't call myself a watch manufacturer - rather a watch hobbyist who likes to design and source watches of my own conception, to satisfy my own desires and to give my friends and their friends a great watch. I always like to up the ante, to see what can be achieved beyond what the mainstream brands already do. More character, more heart...

Very nice watch !

 
 By: gael_bx : July 31st, 2014-07:00
thanks

Thank you!!

 
 By: de Owar : July 31st, 2014-10:31

The case is very intriquing in the flash, as its curves are reflecting lights. I would discribe this case as a tonneau, but a very unique one. 

on the wrist

 
 By: de Owar : July 31st, 2014-10:40





That's the proper environment...

 
 By: Ornatus-Mundi : August 8th, 2014-06:10
works particularly well with your shirt!

Thanks for sharing,
Magnus

That's very kind of you! Thank you Magnus! [nt]

 
 By: de Owar : August 9th, 2014-10:54
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