Independents

but unfortunately I will only have six hours in Basel so cars will have to be another time. I am a bit of a Patek loyalist if there is such a term unless the watch is from Dufour, Voutilainen, Smith, Daniels and perhaps Grönefeld. I adore these particular independents due to their exemplary movement finishing, limited production, simple yet functional and elegant dials and also their resale value. For me, it is important that watches do at least hold their value. If they appreciate, that is an added bonus. I have little doubt that the VC would be excellent value for money but I would not consider one against a Patek I am afraid.
I thank you very much though for your honest views.

The Aston - You love it. You derive great pleasure just looking at it. The greatest depreciation has already taken place.

You are the ultimate collector of world timers but I do appreciate your sensible suggestion! I don't think the 5131R can be quite compared fairly to a Grönefeld as the 5131R would win every time. I am more likely to pit it against my incoming (2020) RW Smith series 2, the last one available in 38mm. (which would you choose here?! Only one please )
I am more interested in the 130 against the Grönefeld not because they are similar watches but more because they are similarly priced. Now of course should I decide to keep the Aston and wear the 5131R while driving it, I think that would be an experience hard to beat by either the Grönefeld or 130!

I would gladly accept that in pretty much ANY watch, especially if 5-10 seconds fast, although for a brand new Rolex I would hope for within + or - 2 seconds. With Patek I am more interested in the artistry than the accuracy. Best, patekova

I expect any new Patek to be as accurate as a Rolex (Patek +2 -3, Rolex +2 -2) and that is the beauty of Patek - one does not have to compromise accuracy for artistry. If I may politely suggest, do take a look at RW Smith. It is watchmaking at a different level

I have just heard from the Italian dealer who has been monitoring the Patek 130 and apparently it is about 5 to 10 seconds out a day. Is this acceptable for a 1940 watch? That may sound like a dumb question but I once had a IWC from 1947 that was actually accurate to 2 seconds daily and Patek being Patek, I hope I should not be expecting less!

I'm not certain how to judge a '47 130, but in case it's a useful reference point, my 96 from '45 was clocked at 3 seconds slow per day, and that was considered quite good. For a 130, 5 second +/- strikes me as entirely reasonable.
Also, my suggestion is to keep the Aston AND go for the 130. Negotiate on the price and get that beauty to within striking distance, then close your eyes, take a deep breath, and make it yours
Good luck friend,
Matt

I really wish it would be financially viable to keep the Aston and acquire the 130 but as retirement beckons in 3 months time, it will have to be one or the other. And I have rewarded myself with enough retirement gifts - RW Smith Series 2 and Patek 5940G. I have tried negotiating on the price but the dealer would not budge as his price was actually pretty good relatively. Yes, I too will be happy with 5 seconds a day but perhaps not 10!
I must say I had not really expected the Aston to have so much support on this forum but it is quite a beauty. I have had almost as many cars as my age ( a lot!!) and I know to call Aston a car would not be doing it justice. We shall see...............

What a great dilemma you have! For me, I'd take the Gronefeld and part with the Aston. I'm not a car guy and would be totally happy with a Golf R or something like that in its place. I met Tim and Bart at Basel last year and was fully convinced by this watch and by their personalities. 

I purposely posted this under the independents forum to give the Grönefeld an advantage but until now most of the replies were partial to the Patek 130 and Aston. Yes a Golf R would be the practical option and to own a watch by Bart and Tim would be a privilege. I shall have a better clue after Basel and probably end up swayed by something quite different!

I have had quite a few over the last few years but I cannot quite put my finger on it put they just did not provide that feel good factor (Sorry Lange fans). Either the watch was too heavy (1815 chrono), took too many turns to wind (150 plus in the 1815 up and down), inaccurate (Lange 1 - probably bad luck on my part) or too thick. I think I did go the German route it would be a Moritz Grossman Tefnut in 36mm or a Lang & Heyne with their sublime movements.

No message body

I have decided to sell the Aston in view of two important developments - firstly, too many nice watches introduced by Patek at Basel and secondly, too many nice watches introduced by Patek at Basel!!

I have a Vantage as well, in Meteroite, in "launch spec", everything very plain as it were when the model came out. Yours even has the sports pack and the timeless and desirable bright silver paint. How on earth are you going to find another one?
Keep.

Since posting this tread, I have had second and third and even fourth thoughts on selling the Aston. Basically, I have such an affinity to the car that I can't seem to let it go. You are most observant and your points are very true. I was looking for one in tungsten silver actually but lightning silver wasn't too bad
So I have decided to keep the Aston and instead I have decided to sell my 5131R which although is a unique watch is a tad too large for my small wrist. The lugs hang and I will probably get the Grönefeld Remontoire partly because I think my expectations of the Patek 130 will be too great and at 70 plus years old, it will likely not live up to my expectations of being reliable and accurate. Thanks again for your input.

How cool would it be to drive arround in a Aston with a Remontoire on the wrist . As a Big car guy and even bigger indie watch guy this would be a dream come true .
These two are both pieces of art imo . Hope to see some nice pics soon

In all honesty, it would be great driving the Aston with even a Casio on the wrist!! But I get your point. I need to sell my 5131R first to finance the purchase of the Remontoire. Bart and Tim are making only 25 steel ones and I believe 12 have been sold so I might stand a chance to get one of the lighter steel models. I would have it with the plain silver dial rather than the guilloched Voutilainen dial.

If i ever have a choice to purchase such a watch i would like to go for the rose gold with salmon dail i think . But thats still a dream watch for me cant wait to see a pic from yours when you have it . Hope for you it will be soon .

a rose gold case with a salmon dial because normally salmon dials are on steel , white gold or platinum cases due to the contrast. But I am pretty conservative and not the most creative person so you might be starting a new trend there!

I have a DeBethune with a titanium case and a Salmon dail ,pefect combo imo . But to do it a bit different if i had the chance with a Gronefeld i would go for a Rose gold case a Salmon dail .( See pic )
Your combo will be a stunner to so i cant wait to see these pics soon

I guess a stainless steel case with a silver dial will look like the watch below but I really do like the strap above which has a quality vintage look!

Choices which combo Rementoire will you be getting?

I will go for the steel Remontoire with the plain silver dial as shown above. The rose gold is nice but I am buying the watch more for the outstanding movement than the metal. Besides, a limited edition of 25 pieces will make it more rare than the 163 pieces of white and rose pieces

I wouldn't hesitate for 1 second: get the Remontoire and keep the Aston
The Remontoire has a story and 3 generations legacy behind it plus when you buy it you are a very special person: 1 out of 188 in the entire world wearing a watch that had won SIHH awards. Nothing against the Patek, it's superb and magnificent but if you buy the Patek, will you meet greet and get to know the owners of Patek? Think not

That leaves Patek or Aston? Well, a watch and car can be enjoyed simultaneously and the Aston is great

Personally, I've got a Porsche and hope to order my Remontoire this summer

Ps: if you have to choose 2 out 3 (Aston Patek Grönefeld) then that's a nice choice to have

I have decided to keep the Aston and give up the idea of the Patek 130 as I think I would be happier with a new watch and I am quite fussy when i comes to accuracy and reliability. The Grönefeld is still being considered although I have since acquired this lovely H Moser. In fact the deposit was left 12 hours ago! Should i decide on a Grönefeld it would be in stainless steel as there will only be 25 of them (20 only of the H Moser below). I must say something about Patek though. I have been invited to the factory and have since made good friends with a fellow Patek owner. The Gronefeld's movement is a sight to behold though

What a pity you can't make it for the tour I talked to you about... (unless you changed your mind...).
Keep the Aston was probably the right choice I believe after reading again the whole thread from A to Z... As for the watch it was only nice options to select from, and only you had the answer. The feedback from all friends here only helped tou to make your choice. My feeling is you were probably not ready for a vintage like the 130 and go for an Independant corresponds better to your expectations... The Moser Concept is of course a great choice since you made it (you were obviously having no doubt and that's the evidence it was the right choice for you). If you can still afford a steel Remontoire from the 2 great brothers go for it since you are dying to get one. In a very short while it will be too late as they will be sold out...
My 2 cents,
Mike

And thank you for the advice on the Grönefeld. I believe Bart and Tim have now sold more than half of the 25 stainless steel models so time is running out and I would like one if at all possible. In my tiny collection, I can see the Remontoire being a keeper. The Aston in a way is more replaceable but I have an affinity with this particular car and our two years together have been memorable. I know I speak of it like I would a woman but that is exactly how I see the Aston, as an extension of me and a real source of joy. I live an 8 minute walk to work and I have even been driving to the office because I know in 7 weeks time I shall leave the UK and miss this car while I leave it stored here (road tax and insurance make the car a huge no-no in Malaysia not to mention being overly high profile there is not encouraged).
I think I will make a final decision on the Remontoire once I sell my place in London (which will hopefully happen in the next couple of months)and hopefully the proceeds will allow me to acquire that marvel of a watch.
And Mike, I must apologise once again for not being to join you on the trip to the independents.