Independents

Thanks to the Greubel & Forsey AD in Paris, I had the opportunity to see and handle the Double Tourbillon 30°.

Let's say it directly: it's a fantastic timepiece.

The Double Tourbillon exists in two versions: vision (with a visible tourbillon through the open dial) or secret (visible only through the display back).
The pictured watch is the Platinum vision with a MOP dial.



Why Double Tourbillon?

The watch wears this name because it features a Tourbillon with 2 cages. The inner Tourbillon is inclined at 30° and rotates once per minute while the outer Tourbillon makes a full rotation every 4 minutes. Thanks to the incline, the rotation of the inner Tourbillon is a true eye-catching.




The big question is of course to know if such complicated Tourbillon is efficient or not. It's obvious that, for example, a low frequency watch, with a large balance wheel, and perfectly adjusted can be very accurate.. if not the most accurate watch. You don't need a Double Tourbillon for that. But finally, I do believe that, thanks to the combined work of the two cages, the technical finishings of the caliber, the efficiency of the complication in the context of the specific goal assigned to the Tourbillon is real.

The next question is to check if the improvement of this efficicency doesn't create other troubles which can be easily avoided with a less complicated watch.

It is the reason why the horology is so fascinating: the quest for the best accuracy doesn't lead to an unique solution. Greubel & Forsey chose a complicated path... and we have to thank them for this because the watch as a whole is fascinating.

Thanks to the open dial, we can enjoy the rotation of the two cages:



The watch is big (43,5mm), thick (16mm) but is still balanced. 3 main informations are displayed on the dial in addtion of the hours, minutes and the Tourbillon: the second hand on the left which is useful here due to the 2 cages and the power reserve indicator on the right. The power reserve is 72 hours thanks to the twin barrels. Just above the Tourbillon, you will find the 4 minutes indicator.


The caliber is the GF 02. This complex caliber has a frequency of 3hz and is composed of 304 parts (39 jewels). The two cages have 128 parts and a cumulated weight of 1,17g.

The caliber layout was designed in order to enhance the beauty of the Tourbillon.



Even if we don't speak about the same type of horology, we can find a similar aesthetical approach with the Fabrication Des Montres Normandes: the Tourbillon fills almost the half part of the caliber.


Hopefully, the decoration of the caliber GF02 is sober and very elegant. A complicated decoration would have led to a "christmas tree effect", something too busy which would have spoiled the show from the Tourbillon. Our eyes are imediately attracted by the Tourbillon and we can spend hours watching it.



The caliber GF02 features one of the most beautiful Tourbillon of the industry:



And... drums are rolling... I put the watch on my wrist.

The watch is heavy and you need to find the right position. Once found, you can wear it without any trouble.

It's when we wear it that we can really appreciate the finishings of the dial. The use of the MOP in this context is an excellent idea. The gold appliques, the blued-stell hands, the visible screws are flawless.



Of course, we feel the fickness of the watch... but it allows us to appreciate the spiral engraved around the case. You will notice the strap color, a very nice grey.



It's almost impossible to remove the Double-Tourbillon when we wear it... the show  on the dial is hypnotizing !



This Double-Tourbillon is maybe one of the most impressive watch I've seen these last years.

But stay tuned ! I will prepare a report about its "small" sister, the Tourbillon 24 seconds incliné... which is also an outstanding watch.



Thanks a lot to the team of the AD in Paris for the warm welcome !



Fr.Xavier

I took it at the Salon Belles Montres.



Fr.Xavier

My friend owns the same watch with the grey dial.  It is an utterly amazing watch.  Every detail is executed to perfection.  The movement is tremendous achievement, both from an engineering/horological perspective, and from an aesthetic perspective.  The double tourbillon is mesmorizing.  The case detail is stellar.  The presentation is drop-dead gorgeous.  It is among my absolute favorite watches.  Thanks for the great review.

Craig

I've never liked the openworked dial on the 30 degree one, I find it very ostentatious compared to the resdtrained, traditional frosted gold of the back.
A

I love the way the time display system is integrated into the movement.



Fr.Xavier

There is no denying that Greubel and Forsey and geniuses.

Craig

Fr.Xavier

who cares if a tourbillon, double tourbillon or inclined tourbillon is superfluous for accuracy in a modern watch, they look superb and are very very clever.

one question Xavier, are the seconds a dead second function?

Graham

If you take the Double Tourbillon : you have the classic second hand (6 steps per second) + the indicator related to the Tourbillon.

But your idea is very interesting ! Maybe a further development from Greubel & Forsey ?



Fr.Xavier


This message has been edited by foversta on 2008-12-21 12:45:41

Graham,

Here is a small explanation from Journe's website:



Hope it helps.

Merry Xmas to you too !

Fr.Xavier

For example, you have a Chezard caliber which is a dead-second one. It was used by Panerai for its Radiomir Independant. Here is a pic from Haute Horlogerie.org :



More recently, Harbring released a watch with a dead second. The caliber used was a Valgranges if I remember well.



Fr.Xavier

Link:  http://panerai.watchprosite.com/show-nblog.post/ti-385422/

Video of the Panerai Independent PAM80 Chezard movement in action

===> CLICK HERE TO SEE THE VIDEO <===

Here's a large video of the PAM80 Independent Chezard movement in action.  Look between the 2 gears

This is just a follow-up of the previous thread Jester started here:  panerai.watchprosite.com

=====================

(And below is Suitbert Walter's explanation of what's taking place in the video)

A short attempt to explain what you see in the video, here's Alec's pic again with some additional drawing:

Click to view full size image

The yellow arrow indicates the fourth wheel, it's the last regular gear wheel of a classical going train and usually turns one time in a minute - thus naturally showing seconds. You may recognize the position in this movement would place the small seconds precisely at 6 o'clock position.  As can be seen by the arrow, it turns CCW, which means seen from dial side it's cw as it should be

The blue arrow indicates the wheel of the jumping  center second -  as indicated and viewed from the bridge side CCW as well,  CW viewed from dial side.

The red arrows - those are indicating the tiny pinnion which connects the fourth wheel to the center seconds wheel - but due to the special "floating" design it translates the regular (5 increments/sec.  as caused by the escapement) movement of the fourth wheel into a "jumping second" at the center seconds wheel.

Floating, that means the post in the center of the pinnion is fixed in a way allowing for lateral movement.  This is done by means of an adjustable spring which is also responsible for the advancement of the center seconds.

It's quite easy to observe in the video, how the transmitting pinnion slides sideways to the left (one red arrow) and reaching a certain tension snaps to the right (two red arrows), thus advancing the center seconds wheel for one increment/sec. 

I know my explanation is quite clumsy - but I hope it will at least not add more confusion

Best regards

Suitbert

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The 24second tourbillon are really interestiing too, as  the "Secret" version of double tourbillon.

For me, this watch (excluding of course Invetion cause she has no dial), have a problem with the dial, i can't imagine that this dial are of 300k€ watchs, i found in the better case that the finition of the dial are good for a 10k€ watch like the grey 24sec dial, or white "secret" double tourbillon dial...

On the other, i just found dial Ugly, on the blue version of the dial of the double tourbillon, is catastropfic, this melt of métal + mother of pearl in half circle, even is really hard to do...

I won't discuss about your tastes, you have the right to dislike this watch but I would like to come back to one comment you did: the finishings of the dial.

I spent a lot of time watching it and it's flawless. The idea of the MOP is excellent and each and every detail is very well done.

Fr.Xavier

take the one on the left!   Gotta love speed!  Thanks for posting.  Andrew H

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