Horological Meandering

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What do you mean by marching marks? I looked at the picture several times but don't know if I'm looking at the right thing. Could you show it on a picture with a circle on it? 

The edge of the micro rotor shows machining marks. It would be preferable if this were polished, but I think one could accept this.

The edge of the bridge shows marks from the tool used to create the anglage (bevel). In a movement of with an expectation of fine finishing, this should be polished by hand but was not.

Thank you for the information.

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....as they say.

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We need Pauli for the turnaround of the Swiss Watch Industry

Patek is not even close to being the best, especially for the money. 100% agree with you.

Thats what i love about this place and love to spend time here.

For years I have tried to get excited by Patek watches. They have always failed to excite me except for the rare handcrafts, some vintage pieces and the 5160R/J. Patek does nothing for me.

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Superbly done sir. I agree 1,000% and you've brought me great joy in this cleaning of the lens, into the industry (yes industry) in which we amuse ourselves.

I wish this post would be bookmarked so we could read and reread it again.

Best
Gatsby

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I'm sure there were questions asked to the watchmakers as to what was the most labor intensive parts of their work, and those are ones that were trimmed. Patek has done well lately with the advent of the 'gotta-have-it!' crowd fawning over the Nautilus suddenly. I think they're applying the same logic here, and hoping the know-nothing lemmings purchasing their steel sports watches at three times MSRP, will find their way over to their dressier pieces. I think they've started to relegate the complications to the collectors, with all the personal touches and hand finishing they expect, and resign the lower end pieces to the Instagram crowd at a higher profit margin, since the majority of them wouldn't know hand finishing if that hand smacked them in the face

Patek and AP are just like any other multibillion dollar brand. I would do the same thing if I knew my customer was had no clue what they were buying.
Personally, my next big watch purchase will be from Roman Gauthier, who offers a lot more value for the money than any of the large brands.

I began my career in 1992 in marketing. Above my desk was a illustration of a pile of excrement on a plate, surrounded by halogen lamps. The caption read: “It’s a piece of sh!t, but it’s tastefully lit.”

Marketing is about seduction, deflection and concealment. It’s primary purpose is to entice consumers until they become emotionally invested to the point that they disable their critical faculties. This is why the marketing industry is worth over US$500 billion a year: if companies did not propagandize their goods and services, we wouldn’t buy nearly as much stuff as we do. Now, some people are more susceptible and credulous than others; but marketing is so pervasive and intrusive we would have to an ascetic living in a cave to be immune.

The watch industry is neck deep in marketing lard. We collectors are co-conspirators, and we do our part to spread a thick layer of contrivance over our habits. We don’t “buy” watches, we “acquire” them (“my latest acquisition”). A watch is a “timepiece” (“nice piece, bro!”). Heavens forbid that our behavior should be compared to that of The Great Unwashed. No, we’re better than that, and for those of us who aspire to the best, there’s Patek Philippe. It’s the best because it sets itself up that way, which is not the same as being materially superior.

Once upon a time, Patek Philippe used to compete and triumph at chronometry trials. That was when competitive performance mattered. It was good at it, and it’s wins adorned its marketing material.

Today it shies away from competition and rates its own work. Because nothing says transparency and objectivity than self-assessing and literally ‘sealing’ your own products.

Most watch companies deploy sleights of hand, although some are now experimenting with radical transparency. Lists of partners are proudly namechecked on websites, an entirely laudable trait. These watch companies understand that there are people who aren’t willing to pay the high Patek Premium just to be clubbable, and who are simply tired of being doused in schmaltz and deceived.

The work that Horomariobro and others do will - I believe - continue to blow away the puffery that sustains Patek Philippe and any other watch company where there is a reality gap between reputation and quality. In any case, it’s getting to the point where you don’t have to be a horological guru to know that a Patek isn’t always the best value for money. Paying that much extra just to be able to hang with other Patek folks is a high price to pay for, well, things immediately unrelated to watches per se.

There are varying degrees of hand finishing and I don't think Patek can be considered entirely machine-finished just due to the lack of interior angles. You do get some other nice finishings like the black-polished screws, perlage, cotes de geneve, etc. If you compare the Patek's movement to what you would get in a Rolex, Royal Oak, or JLC Reverso/Master, the Patek would still be considered more well-finished. That being said, it would be preferable for Patek to hold itself to a higher standard given the brand reputation and their pricing.

...brilliant article on The ABC’s of Watch Finish. This was an eye opener for me when I read it more than a decade ago and it helped me appreciate the beauty of hand finished watches and to also understand the reason why these hand finished works of art deserve a premium; and truly are worthy of haut de gamme status.

Lack of hand-finish in a caliber powering a super expensive complication like the PP 5236 is not something to be ignored or accepted as being perfectly normal, simply because Patek has presented a “fait accompli”. Same holds true for the Caliber 30-255 PS (ticking in PP 6119)where a beautiful caliber has not been finished in a deserving manner inspite of the premium pricing.

Just read it and although it is a great introduction to watch finishing, I do not agree with some of the statements like "Each one serves a function and, for the vast majority of them, the quality of finish will determine how well the part can perform its function and for how long".
There is a clear difference between manufacturing accuracy and finishing and the latter does not necessarily contribute to how well the watch works. Except for a few components of course. Now most components are produced by CNC, and the "hand made" is very limited (which is very positive for time accuracy).
The discussion here is on anglage, and they do not bring anything to the accuracy of the watch.
I guess Patek tries to find the limit between what a customer is happy to accept in term of finishing.
Best,
E.

...but meaningless.

The Patek sells for multiples of the JLC or the Rolex. And it sells itself on the basis of being The Best, peerless, etc. It’s something of an apples vs oranges comparison.

Best

E.

(It’s been a while since I’ve looked at the 2121 movement in a Royal Oak Jumbo...I remember it was fine but nothing special, but then of course it’s older...and a classic in its architecture.)

Looking at the movement, it seems clear that economy was not among its design goals.
It is certainly respectable to design a movement for the purpose of making it easy to manufacture and finish, and I certainly don't approve of complexity for the sake of complexity.
In a luxury timepiece, however, I think it is fair to ask that movement design decisions be made primarily on the bases of function and sculptural beauty, weighted according to the manufacturer's preferences, and that the manufacturer then spend what it must to finish the movement well. It's fine to design a movement that is as easy as possible to produce, but (a) a top manufacturer should not sacrifice function or beauty for that purpose and (b) if the sacrifices are obvious to the outside observer, then the manufacturer has really blown it.

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