Comments:
RXW - Marina Militaire
I thought I would put this to the members of the purists, as purity lies at the heart of the question:
A fellow watch lover and I (neither of whom own PAM's)were talking about tribute watches. He collects watches that have historical significance or reference. EG;
Omega Speedmaster - moon landing
Rolex Explorer - Everest climb
He had been thinking about the Panerai 1950, but decided to go for the RXW, which he argues is not a replica of modern Panerai, but a truer replica of the original '37 Marina Militaire. So he has received it, I have had a good look, and I must say, this is a nicely made piece of watch, with an impressive array of accessories, and a box that would beat a lot of supposedly superior manufacturers.
The question still remains: Is he right, or is he, as I playfully alluded to (succesfully) to make him angry, trying to save a buck!! This message has been edited by DRMW on 2009-01-22 00:05:32
A fellow watch lover and I (neither of whom own PAM's)were talking about tribute watches. He collects watches that have historical significance or reference. EG;
Omega Speedmaster - moon landing
Rolex Explorer - Everest climb
He had been thinking about the Panerai 1950, but decided to go for the RXW, which he argues is not a replica of modern Panerai, but a truer replica of the original '37 Marina Militaire. So he has received it, I have had a good look, and I must say, this is a nicely made piece of watch, with an impressive array of accessories, and a box that would beat a lot of supposedly superior manufacturers.
The question still remains: Is he right, or is he, as I playfully alluded to (succesfully) to make him angry, trying to save a buck!! This message has been edited by DRMW on 2009-01-22 00:05:32
he's wrong and just trying to save a buck IMO
Panerai issued a press release sometime in mid-2004 where they won a lawsuit again Ken Trading in Japan, who makes the RXW, prohibiting any further production of the RXW MM20 Marina Militare. (I forgot actual specifics but it was worded something like this. If I am incorrect, someone please correct me)
I tried searching Panerai's website and the press release is no longer there anymore. Either way, Panerai won the lawsuit so that further validates the fact, well at least to me that is, that the MM20 is a fake of the PAM127 1950.
- Anthony
I tried searching Panerai's website and the press release is no longer there anymore. Either way, Panerai won the lawsuit so that further validates the fact, well at least to me that is, that the MM20 is a fake of the PAM127 1950.
- Anthony
agreed (nt)
nt
Re: Anthony is right...
...in fact, I believe Ken Trading later lost another lawsuit bought by Rolex for their "Rolex-tribute" watches.
To my knowledge, Ken Trading has essentially shut down their "watchmaking" operations after these cases, since they are enjoined from producing any more fakes. I'm not sure if they still sell used Rolexes since the webpage is down.
I know Ken Trading's watches have their fans, but personally I feel a fake is a fake is a fake no matter how relatively well made it is. Good riddance.
- Daniel
To my knowledge, Ken Trading has essentially shut down their "watchmaking" operations after these cases, since they are enjoined from producing any more fakes. I'm not sure if they still sell used Rolexes since the webpage is down.
I know Ken Trading's watches have their fans, but personally I feel a fake is a fake is a fake no matter how relatively well made it is. Good riddance.
- Daniel
Ken Trading not selling Fakes
I am a personal business partner with Ken Trading. Back in the 1990's I started doing business with them. By the way Ken is only his cover name. I don't need to divulge his real name, but he is probably the most knowledgeable guy I know about watches. He taught me a lot about Rolex,and he helped me make some serious money from selling used Rolex.
He actually asked me to help him research the idea of making watches using ETA movements. His thinking was simple. He knows about quality watches, and he wanted to make them more affordable to the average guy. He is a true watch enthusiast and a very nice guy as well. Over the years he has made many contributions to watch magazines in Japan, and the magazine editors greatly respect his knowledge.
To make a long story short, he never intended to make fakes. He hates fakes, but a good look a like is another thing. Now in my research I will blew you a way, and I think I will reveal a secret which is the real reason that Panerai and other snobs like Rolex went after him. A pity, because Ken Trading made Rolex models in Japan popular through his marketing and his articles in watch magazines. When Ken spoke the Japanese watch collectors listened. If he said buy this model, then they did by the thousands. He made the Explorer I popular. I made a fortune selling these in Japan. He was my source of knowledge, He told me to stock up on Explorer I and I did. The price increase by 4 times within 6 months of his articles . I even believe Rolex read his articles for ideas of what to produce.
Anyway, buddy you really don't know what you are talking about. You are another parrot of the media. In my research I found that a Panerai has an ETA movement, cases made in China. We estimated the production cost of some models and we figured nothing would cost more that $500 and yet they make you pay $4,000. You tell me who is the villian and who is the hero? I have dealt with Rolex for years, and I think they are representative of the snobbish attitudes these brand watch owners display. (by the way Swatch now won't sell ETA outside its long time partners, probably from pressure, for these guys who fear the Chinese watch outdoing them)
They are getting rich off people's ignorance. For example, Swiss law only requires 50 % of parts to be made in Switzerland in order to have "made in Swiss" stamped on the dial. Where do you think the other 50 % comes from? I will give you a hint. I have seen many "fakes' over the years, and most fakes were so obvious. However, in recent years, they are as good as the real thing. Why? Technology transfer. Watch parts made in China are now in Swiss watches.
I had a very good friend, whose family has been in the Rolex Service business for over 50 years. He confessed to me that to get a 100% all Swiss parts watch, you need to go back 15 years or so, otherwise there is a high chance that some parts are made in China.
So dear friend, you can see who the real criminals are. It hink instead of going on the defense somebody should sue these companies for false advertising and investigate their "fake" "made in Swiss" watches. I would never buy a new watch from any of these guys. They are as phoney as the fakes out of China. The only difference is that they have an ETA movement or a Swiss movement, and some fancy lawyers. Otherwise, the rest of their claims are a lie.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Brian
He actually asked me to help him research the idea of making watches using ETA movements. His thinking was simple. He knows about quality watches, and he wanted to make them more affordable to the average guy. He is a true watch enthusiast and a very nice guy as well. Over the years he has made many contributions to watch magazines in Japan, and the magazine editors greatly respect his knowledge.
To make a long story short, he never intended to make fakes. He hates fakes, but a good look a like is another thing. Now in my research I will blew you a way, and I think I will reveal a secret which is the real reason that Panerai and other snobs like Rolex went after him. A pity, because Ken Trading made Rolex models in Japan popular through his marketing and his articles in watch magazines. When Ken spoke the Japanese watch collectors listened. If he said buy this model, then they did by the thousands. He made the Explorer I popular. I made a fortune selling these in Japan. He was my source of knowledge, He told me to stock up on Explorer I and I did. The price increase by 4 times within 6 months of his articles . I even believe Rolex read his articles for ideas of what to produce.
Anyway, buddy you really don't know what you are talking about. You are another parrot of the media. In my research I found that a Panerai has an ETA movement, cases made in China. We estimated the production cost of some models and we figured nothing would cost more that $500 and yet they make you pay $4,000. You tell me who is the villian and who is the hero? I have dealt with Rolex for years, and I think they are representative of the snobbish attitudes these brand watch owners display. (by the way Swatch now won't sell ETA outside its long time partners, probably from pressure, for these guys who fear the Chinese watch outdoing them)
They are getting rich off people's ignorance. For example, Swiss law only requires 50 % of parts to be made in Switzerland in order to have "made in Swiss" stamped on the dial. Where do you think the other 50 % comes from? I will give you a hint. I have seen many "fakes' over the years, and most fakes were so obvious. However, in recent years, they are as good as the real thing. Why? Technology transfer. Watch parts made in China are now in Swiss watches.
I had a very good friend, whose family has been in the Rolex Service business for over 50 years. He confessed to me that to get a 100% all Swiss parts watch, you need to go back 15 years or so, otherwise there is a high chance that some parts are made in China.
So dear friend, you can see who the real criminals are. It hink instead of going on the defense somebody should sue these companies for false advertising and investigate their "fake" "made in Swiss" watches. I would never buy a new watch from any of these guys. They are as phoney as the fakes out of China. The only difference is that they have an ETA movement or a Swiss movement, and some fancy lawyers. Otherwise, the rest of their claims are a lie.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Brian