Horological Meandering

I want to know what your opinion on this matter is because I'm having an email exchange with a disgruntled poster who claims that I am being arrogant for enforcing the below guideline.

Our CM has always been a premiere forum for high end watches IMO.  We've never had aftermarket strap sellers post ads in our CM because we do not want aftermarket straps ads to dilute watch ads.

Yes I know we have grey mkt dealer selling watches in our CM now (we will be making changes to our CM in the future), but there's a difference.  They are selling authentic watches (well I hope they all are...we've banned many fraudulent sellers btw so do your own diligence before buying a watch from our CM or anywhere else on the internet.  there is always a chance of getting scammed).

Aftermarket strap makers are selling non-authentic products.  Yes I know practically all the brands outsource their straps and literally don't make their own straps.  But these outsourced straps have their brand stampings on them.  So my definition of an authentic strap is a strap that has been made by or for the brand itself with the brand stamping on the strap.

Am I wrong in enforcing a ban on aftermarket strap dealers in our CM?  (Defintion of aftermarket strap dealer - anyone who has a lot of brand new aftermarket straps for sale).

Given the plethora of strap makers these days, if we allow aftermarket strap dealers to post ads in our CM, there will be a huge influx of strap ads flooding the CM which is something I do not want to occur.

Is my logic absurd?  Am I being arrogant for banning aftermarket strap dealers?  Please set me straight if I am.

Thanks,
Anthony

And I do not feel this is being arrogant.

Sam

 

Hi Anthony,

I absolutely agree with you.  IMHO, your logic is sound and there is absolutely no arrogance on your part for banning aftermarket strap dealers.  Since it's your website (as well as other PuristSPro Executives) I think you can do whatever you want without having to explain yourself to others.  If the rule is that aftermarket strap dealers should NOT post on CM, then that's it.  End of story.  No need to justify your reasoning. 

As for this particular dealer (and I'm not trying to point fingers as I don't know the whole situation), I have to ask this:  What has this aftermarket dealer done to contribute to PuristSPro?  Probably not much at all... If the intent is purely commercial, I would think that it's only fair that this dealer contribute some monetary amount to advertise on this forum.  Some people just want something for nothing.... 

I'm sure most of us are here on PuristSPro for the enjoyment of watches as a hobby.  Frankly I'm tired of all these flippers/shillers masquerading as watch enthusiasts.  It's pretty obviously what they do.  I'm sure it's one of those undeclared and thankless jobs that your moderators have to tolerate on a daily basis to provide us with a great community.

Regards,
ED-209


This message has been edited by ED209 on 2009-03-12 21:03:59

Aftermarket straps are not necessarily inauthentic as long as they are not falsely branded like originals. However, advertisements for them can certainly clutter up a sales forum.

If you wanted to be especially accommodating, maybe you would decide to allow strap and accessory advertising one day a week only.

by which I mean that it is fine to limit the market to watches, so that it is not "diluted" with accessories – I certainly have no problem with that – but the distinction between branded and third-party straps strikes me as rather strained. As we all know, there are plenty of fine quality third-party straps, some of which would be indistinguishable to  branded straps in every other respect. So that does strike me as an odd distinction to make, much like allowing someone to sell a branded watch box, while, to use just one example, not allowing Scatolo del Tempo boxes to be advertised.

So, from my standpoint, it would make more sense to restrict the market to watches only (and ideally I'd prefer only pre-owned, not gray market), or open it up to third-party accessories as well.

Regards,

Tony C.

The rules are the rules and they are usually there for a reason.

Sounds logical to stick to ones guidlines.

Hey why don't they start a strap site.  Then they can have there own rules on admitting watches.

George

Your application of the current policy is fine - indeed, there are those of us who yearn nostalgically for the even-less-diluted CM of yore which was enthusiastically populated by enthusiasts for enthusiasts, period.

Keep up the good work Anthony, and a pox on those who blight your firmament.   ;-)

 

Cheers,

pplater.

there are guidelines for us all and plus i wouldnt like to see every man trying to sell bands on the cm.

and we all need to remember that it is a privilege, not a right, to be able to participate in any part of this forum. IMO, sticking to authentic watches is the premise and foundation of this forum, hence the name PuristsPro. If there is need to find out about after market products, as have been done in the past, let it first "originate" from a registered member and then, let the information pass through PM, as is part of the existing guidelines. That seems to already be working well.

Although wrist bands complete the "entire" package of the watch, the bands that come with watch, as you've alluded to, are specific to that brand, from that brand.

Hypothetically speaking, allowing anyone to advertise after market "accessories" could possibly force PuristsPro to open up the doors to "other" accessories such as selling diamonds or whatever.

I wish there were even more guidelines in place to limit "companies" from using the CM as their personal storefront, but it sounds like that may be in the works.

Disgruntled or not, contribution or not, it still is a PRIVILEGE and NOT a right, to be part of this forum.

Thanks for the privilege,

Bob

I have no issue with straps and bracelets but agree they should not be after market

Julian

Do you contemplate allowing sellers of OEM straps?  It looks to me like you are.  I think you would be okay either way.  One distinction, too.  Aftermarket straps are not "inauthentic" from my perspective unless they purport that their straps are, in fact, OEM.

It's a pleasure to read and post here.  Thanks.

Best,

Jed

I do not see a problem with them because I have yet to see a strap seller who sells OEM straps in bulk.  So basically I don't think an OEM strap seller exists

Cheers,
Anthony

nt.

You're one of those who are in charge to fix the rules.

So a guy coming from nowhere telling you what you have to do ( in his own interest, therefore ), YES, I find that a bit arrogant.

The rules are perfect, Anthony, don't worry.

Best,

Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-03-12 23:52:01

Anthony,

Da Rules are DA RULES!

People come to this site as visitors / guests and follow the house rules.    We leave our job titles, credentials, handguns and baggage at the door.   Nobody is any better or worse than anybody else and have no right to call a moderator (and host) "arrogant".  

My experience as a physician, research scientist and business consultant is that usually arrogant people have the arrogance to call others arrogant.  It is a behavioural paradox of human nature.  I am reminded of Groucho Marx who said he did not want to join a club that allowed him to be a member (said in the days when Jews were not welcomed in WASP clubs).

We do not chain people to the floor to make them stay.   They are not forced to come here.    But when they are here, it is courteous to follow the local rules.  We are always polite to our hosts.

Personally, I don't like strap adverts because they dilute the real offerings. Why read about tofu when you can have beef?  There are websites for strap enthusiasts.  (BTW I like tofu more than beef but I don't have to read an advert to know that)

We want to keep it simple and don't have the time to police After-Market accessory sellers or selected days for strap adverts or any such variations.

Finally, I guess the rules can change at the whim of the Management; so if it decides that CM will charge a fee for people to advertise watch straps made from elephant foreskins......so be it. 

I don't mind strap adverts then.....if the elephants don't mind

 

Regards, MTF

This message has been edited by MTF on 2009-03-13 01:40:25

a lot of us buy aftermarket straps, but we know where to go to find them and dont really want them pushed in our faces on the CM. there would be pages and pages of them and i only look at the first page.

i would actually go as far as to say that i dont think there is really a place for watch dealers on the CM. i buy grey market watches occasionally, but never from the CM. that should be a place for collectors to sell to collectors.

the only thing i could suggest to improve the CM is the 'bump' facility others have so your watches dont get lost in the pages.

you are far from arrogant Anthony and totally correct in this policy IMHO.

best

Graham

Anytime you edit one of your old ads, it will jump up straight to the top when you sort by "Newest" column.  "Newest" is sorted by time of edit. 

Our CM currently is the most powerful CM, IMO of course, on the web hands down because our CM is built on a database structure where you can sort by criteria.

Cheers,
AT

No message body

MTF, your post made me recall the rumours that the barstools in Onassis' Yacht Christina were covered in Whale foreskin...

 

Oh, as to the real topic at hand: Leave the CM to watches.

I would not want the pages crammed with strap ads, but the reasoning of "aftermarket or OEM" when it comes to straps makes no sense to me at all.  Certainly if they were fake (branded as real straps when they are not) it would be different, but aftermarket straps are so common that to ban them specifically defies logic IMO.

Cheers, Al

it's nice not to see them here and hope it stays that way.

I'd like to see only 'private sellers' on the Collectors Market as well.  I personally don’t like having grey market dealers and ‘e-watch’ sellers in the collectors market.  There are plenty of other watch sites where they can pedal their wares. 

Jonathan Bar-on

 

by all of the Moderators?

As all moderators report to the GM, there is really nothing to discuss............er...........but he is not arrogant about it!

MTF

LOLOLOL

 

You're a very nice guy and the guidelines are perfect

That ought to winnow takers down a bit. ;-)

 

George

 

This message has been edited by mbogo on 2009-03-13 12:23:18

if I have understood your post correctly – and as somebody who was involved in helping watch companies to fight against fakes – I believe it is illegal in many markets to use a brand's name or logo on a product that is not authentic. Any lawyers here can probably tell us whether or not such activity constitutes a breach of intellectual property law. If it does, then IMHO there is no way such advertisements should be allowed anywhere on ThePuristS and you are entirely justified in following the forum guidelines - perhaps you would be at fault for condoning such activity. Lawyers, what do you think?

...then we'll talk.

;-)

 

Cheers,

pplater.

...otherwise CM can be a chaotic place to search for watches.

Best

Ahmet

sellers. As far as the arrogant comment goes, a lot of the reason why this is my site and group of choice is because there is a lack of arrogance. You and the other moderators I know are the best!

Tony