Horological Meandering

Today I visited the first AD in my country, which is an official dealer for GS. They had some pieces in stock.
My favourites have been the simple ones and only one of them was in stock:


(SBGW001J)

My first impression was - nice! Perfect size on the wrist and I liked the design, which is very understated - somehow.
But it looked like if there was no antireflection coating (compared to a Lange on my wrist). From the papers it should have one,
but it was very "shiny". My second issue was the crown, which looks a little big and the quality/finish is below the finish of the case.
Am I too picky? My expectation was very high, because of the praises from several people here.

The other one I was interested in:


(SBGR061)

It was not available and it is not that easy to get in my market (I was told). The crown looks similar, from the pictures.

Thought one of these could be nice for the office, but now I am not sure anymore.

Looking forward to read your thoughts about the coating and the crown.

Thanks!

Oliver

except to say that it has never bothered me. It does have a high domed saphpire crystal which may result in different sorts of reflection than a more typical flatter crystal. I kind of know what you mean about the crown in the sense that it doesn't seem to be cast/machined as sharply as the rest of the watch but I think its size is perfectly appropriate for a handwind watch. BTY it is a beautiful watch to wind - silky smooth. Despite, or because, of its simplicity it is a very 'Japanese' watch with a feel and asthetic quite unlike high quality European watches. For that reason alone it is worth trying out.

for your reply. "it is a very 'Japanese' watch with a feel and asthetic quite unlike high quality European watches" That was my impression as well. Like my Mazda MX5 which I used to own in the past. It was a nice looking car, offering lots of fun, for a reasonable price. It was worth the money, nothing more, nothing less.

Was it a pleasure in every detail? No!

Oliver

Solid, very conserative, retro styled in a 60's Tokyo kind of way. Impecably finished. A simple yet highly evolved manufacture movement which is highly accurate and super stable in all positions. It appealed to me as a perfect office watch also. I think Seiko offer a no non-sense, value for money proposition across their entire range, Grand Seikos included.

sounds good to me

Thanks again, for sharing your point of view.

Oliver

I also used to own an MX-5...

What colour was yours?

Cheers

with beige leather seats and roof ...

small world...

Mine was the same colour (including the seats)...
Only difference was the hood that was black and that it was an
earlier model, the one with the pop up head lights....



Cheers

1.  Creates a network of authorized dealers (including one east of the Mississippi River....is that too much to ask?)

2.  Further clarifies how one is to get his/her GS serviced without having to send it all the way back to Japan and waiting for God-knows-how-long (compare that to getting a Rolex serviced....)

3.  Does more than just sprinkle a few samples among its 3 current AD's (I can get virtually any model other top brands from many ADs within 50-100 miles of my house... I don't need to mail-order from 3,000 miles away....).

4.  Clarifies what it's intentions are regarding their entire line, including, e.g., Credor

....then and only then will I consider purchasing a Grand Seiko.  Until then, there are too many other great watches around for me to be bothered.

While Seiko is the brands that makes 300K to 400K watches a year (most of which are quartz), the worthy watches for watch nuts like us is relatively small quantity, and resources in that department is quite limited, with top watchmakers having been awarded medals by the Japanese Government.  So, you have to wait patiently until the capability grows to cover the global market to provide similar level of services, and I think it won't come quick.  But my experiences says that  the servicing time is quite reasonable.  Stay tuned.  But from my perspective, complicated watches of major brands tend to have to be sent back to Switzerland anyway and takes several months to come back and, to me,  it would be the same thing.

Hi Ken, if you say worthy, what do you have in mind. Inner values? I really try to understand that product - Grand Seiko. So far I don´t get it, if I consider the money they ask for.
The winding of the watches felt very smooth and the accuracy should be very good (I was told). Service - the AD had to sign that he will never (!) open any GS. They all have to send back to Japan, for any reason. I could accept the later, but still don´t get the watch in detail

Thanks!
Oliver.

Like I stated, Seiko makes perhaps 300 or 400K watches annually and most of them are relatively cheap quartz.  So, I meant to say that the most of those USD20 or USD100 watches are not worthy to discuss here among watch nuts like us.

More to your point - I honestly don't get what you don't get.  GS are mostly SS, very accurate, service is superb as the top of the line of Seiko.  GS concept is the highest quality as the practical watches - I repeat, practical watches.  So, no or little bell and whistles (of course there are some, some chronograph and such).  The price is reasonable (I don't know the pricing for EUR or US, but GS price ranges from 3K to 7K, about) and it serves the purpose - being practical.  For that, I agree that it is superb.  Credor is different under different concept, by the way.  Credor also is the top of the line, but more on the luxury side with Urushi dial, Noritake dial, etc., for example.  It really comes down to one's expectation from the watches.  As you know, my watches are not only Seikos, but variety of watches and I like and respect Seiko, GS or Credor, as much as I do ALS, Moser, Patek, etc.

Maybe that´s it.

Ken, thanks a lot for taking the time to reply. Your view is important to me as we know each other a little bit - at least when it comes to watches

Regards,
Oliver

These are exceptional time pieces.
I have sent a Patek to New York and not seen it for 3-4 months. I am still violated by the cost.
I sent a Grand Seiko to Japan and had it back in 3 weeks. It cost under $300 including shipping.
Seiko is a superior product and when dealing with Seiko Japan, you are dealing with people that actually care about customer service.

Hi, could you please help me to understand exceptional in this case? Thanks!

Oliver

At this price point, and honestly at watches costing 3 times as much, the finish is essentially perfect. Again, these are not as ornate as a Lange, but as far as attention to detail goes- They are superior or on par with any watch made. Although only based on my personal experience, I have had issues with JLC. Many different pieces. Bothered by some of their QC. With Grand Seiko, there is no question that each piece carries a part of the maker with it. YMMV.

Hi Olivier,

Here is why I think GS is exceptional as an owner of several as well as having seen both factories.

1. Case work is excellent, especially on the cases with contrasting polished/brushed finishes; the edges are sharp and carefully done. The models you shown are entirely polished. Seiko also has an in-house titanium alloy that can be polished to a shine which is unusual.

2. The dial and hands are exceptional. The hands and indices are diamond cut, hence the super sharp edges and bevels. The dials are printed with Seiko's in-house printing equipment, resulting in thick and sharp lettering. The dial and hands are probably the greatest visible quality of GS in my opinion.

3. The movement finishing of functional parts, especially in the escapement and balance, is truly extraordinary. The teeth of the pinions are polished, for instance, which is Geneva Seal standard. The decorative finishing on the other hand is mechanically applied.

4. Also the quiet innovation in the watch. For example the SPRON alloys for the hairspring and main spring. The new mainspring allows for 72 hour power reserve (against 50 something before) with the same barrel, and the new hairspring is less sensitive to temperature and magnetism. Also, the inhouse pallet and escape wheel that are made using etching technology like that to etch silicon. These have perforations cut in them for lightness and special profile of the teeth on the escape wheel for retention of lubrication.

GS quality is exceptional, especially for this price range. There are no watches in this price range that are comparable, especially for dial and hand work, and movement finishing.

- SJX

This message has been edited by SJX on 2010-12-09 19:38:02

which is appreciated a lot.

Just one more question: Why do they  go that far in most of the details, but leave out the crown?

At the moment the crown is the only reason for me not to buy one. Just a tiny detail, but even for that kind of money I like to get the "full package".
For sure they could solve the "problem" easily, but why are they not interested in? ...

Oliver

Hi Oliver,

Which aspect of the crown disappoints you? The relief GS logo or the knurls on the crown?

- SJX

somehow raw, to me. Together with the bigger size it is in full view. The GS logo is hard to see, but that is no problem for me.

Oliver

I have also recently been trying to get as much information on this Seiko range, as the GS has really got me interested in getting another Seiko.

But with only one authorised dealer in the UK, getting to see one is not going to be that easy. 

Thanks for posing the questions, Oliver

it's just plain. Perhaps the knurls could be sharper, but otherwise I think it's on par with the competition, unlike the dial, hands, movement etc which are exceptional. It is perhaps the nature of GS that the crown is an issue; if it were an Omega it would be ho-hum and par for the course.

- SJX

How would you com are the finishing of GS with Blancpain and/ or JLC?

Thanks

Cheers

and not that easy to answer. All three brands have offers in different price levels. I will try.

Lets compare the price level € 4-10K, steel cases, Leman line from Blancpain, Master line from Jaeger and GS.

In this case I would say Blancpain is superior (cases, crowns, dials, indexes, hands, clasps, ...). The cases of Jaeger and GS are equal, but the crowns from Jaeger are superiour GS.

Observation excluding the movements and the design - based on personal experiences/impressions.

seen the GS yet.....

But, for the rest that you are saying I fully agree with you...



Cheers

I think GS is superior to both BP and JLC in terms of dials and hands, as well as case work. Decorative movement finish JLC and BP win out, and I'd assume functional finish is similar.

- SJX

"GS is superior to both ..." Not sure if we talk about the same watches. Are there different quality levels for the markets?
Would love to discuss the topic with one example (at least) from each brand in our hands, to understand your points on that.

In japanese there are two words which come to my mind: sabi and shibui. Are those the key?

Oliver

In terms of hands - GS hands are thick, polished with sharp edges thanks to diamond cutting; BP and JLC hands are flatter with less depth

Dials - GS dial printing is thick and very sharp under magnification compared to the other two, however, BP and JLC have more elaborate dial finishes, e.g. guilloche, while GS is mostly brushed silver

Cases - BP and JLC cases are largely stamped and polished, with no contrasting case finishes or complex shapes

- SJX

I've owned two Grand Seiko watches. They were both very well finished but my crowns were actually small. They were both quartz so the crown isn't that important. This model is manual, right? I'd suspect they made it bigger for this purpose.

This model has a strap. Mine both had very odd bracelets but they fit exceedingly well.

The glare coating was mild. But functional.

Don't know if I can link to another forum but search SBGX061 and you should find it.