Horological Meandering

Hi,

I wanted to ask the forum why there are no simple, time only, arabic number or plain marker, manual wind, stainless steel watches with display case backs being made today in the 37-40 mm size?

It appears that manual wind watches being made today utilize either ETA-Unitas 6497/6498 or a Hamilton 917/921/923/945 calibers many of which are from larger pocket watches. It seems that 41-42 mm is about as small as these calibers can be fit in.  I know that ETA still makes smaller manual wind calibers like the Peseux 7001 and the 2801-2, but I do not seee them used to often. 

Perhaps the larger pocket watch movements are more robust?  I know the general trend over the last decade has been toward ever increasing sizes in watches (I own two 44 mm sport watches) but I am amazed that 42 mm is about the lower end of size that I can find. I did not realize that it would be so difficult to find a watch being made today.  Most smaller watches either have cases made from precious metals or have very expensive in-house movements.  I was hoping to find something in the $4-8k range, but so far no luck. 

- Blancpain Villieret Ultra Slim is 40 mm but has Roman numerals which I do not want

- Chopard only really makes precious metal LUC watches now

- Chronoswiss makes some at 44 mm

- Dornblueth makes 42 mm deck watches

- Glashutte makes a Pano but it is too close to my PML auto

- Grand Seikos are great, but no display back

- IWC Portuguese hand winds are huge (44mm)

- JLC Reversos are fine, but only the 976 has a display back and it is too big for me and the MUT 37 has no second hand.

- Nomos are great, but they are too small

- Omega Railmasters are enormous

- Panerai makes a Radomir at 42 mm

- RGM makes a number of watches in the 41 to 44 mm range

- Stowa Antea Klein is too small and their deck watches are 42 mm

- Tourby makes watches at 42 mm

I realize that a vintage watch might be a way to look but I really don't know to much about what was good and what was not, who to buy from or what is a fair price to pay; so I have stayed away from that option.  Some pointers here might be appreciated.

I welcome your comments and thoughts.

Bob

. . . that fills all your requirements, Bob . . .

. . . including list price limitations. Unfortunately, I don't have any caseback photos to share, but a Google search for "Eterna Madison Spherodrive" will bring up a series of photos on a French website. And yes, it's on my shortlist, too . . . cordially, Art

Art,

Thanks much for suggesting the Eterna.  I had looked at the Eterna Madison Three Hands in my search.  While it is a less sophisticated movement, I prefer having the seconds marked in the chapter ring. What I found a bit unsettling is that there are only Eterna 3 ADs in the USA.  If I do a search on some of the powerful and common watch for sale websites you find only one listing in the world in the EU.  So this somewhat put me a back, particularly when investing into an in-house movement.  This is what led me to the JLC Grande Reverso 976, but alas it is too large.

Regards,

Bob

. . . in the way of points-of-sale, but that's three more than there were two years ago ;-) . . .

and it is at 40mm...

J

Art,

This is regular madison without the cool movement feature.

Bob

. . . ball bearings in the winding stem like the Spherodrive.

I'd love to hear from an owner about these Eternas . . .

There are several Reversos that are smaller, and the new Master Ultra Thin Moonphase is gorgeous and 39mm.

For independents you might give a look at Henschel. They make some very nice looking traditional hand wound watches. I've never seen one in person, but they look very nice in the catalog.

Best,
Daniel

I considered the Orea but I am looking for either arabic numbers or plain markers.  I am not interested in roman numerals for this one.

Thank you for the suggestions.  I will check out Hentschel, I had not heard of them.  The new JLC is lovely, but I do not think I want a second lunar watch (I have a GO PML).  Since I will only wear the manual wind now and then, I do not want any calendar or complication (perhaps a power reserve)that will complicate setting the time.

Bob,

The Nomos Club manual winders are at 36 mm, which is below your stated size preference, but there is also the newer Zurich line, at 39.7 mm, using the same Alpha manual movement.

JLC's Master Grand Ultra Thin at 40 mm and with a display back might also meet your needs. Unsure of MSRP.

I also think that raw case diameter can be quite misleading as to watch "size".  Dial diameter (a hard metric to find) I find to be a better comparator.   In this, the Stowa Antea KS and the Dornbluth 09 Jasmin excel, as they have very thin bezels and robust dials.

Tom

Nomos have very thin bezels so the dial is relatively large compared to other watches which gives an impression of size, and so on the wrist they look larger than they actually are.  This also means you don't have half a ton of metal protruding from your wrist.

nick

Tom,

I really like the Nomos Zurich, but it is made with their automatic Epsilon and Zeta movements as far as I can tell.  Where did you see a version made with an alpha? Regarding their size wearing larger, I agree.  I own a Stowa Antea which is 36.5 mm and it is quite similar in its bauhaus look. I like the Tangente and the Orion but they are only 35 mm.  The club is a little too sporty for what I was looking for and is 36 mm.

...my mistake.  I thought they also came with the manual movement, but I see from the Nomos site that they are automatic only.

Regarding Grand Seiko manuals, the limited edition SBGW003 model (quite beautiful - see Steve G's launchpad) comes with a display back.  300 pieces, I think, but they come up from time to time.  The big Japanese ADs that ship to the States might still have one, for all I know.

[Whoops, just looked up the SBGW003 - it's 36 mm diameter.]

good luck, Tom

 

I thought that it might be helpful for those of you trying to assist me to know what I have in my collection.  Here are my automatic watches....

Bob

 

Interesting question. There are some discontinued options that would be terrific if you could find them such as a Blancpain 7002, a Blancpain 1106, a Minerva Pythagore, Union Glashutte Bergter, Nimes Pharro, , Dornblueth 04.0.

Not exactly what you are asking but a white gold Lange 1815 is wonderful, anFB Journe Chronometer Bleu is (great as is the new 34mm Dornblueth Jasmine.

I have similar interests!

I really like the BP 7002.  It is only 26 mm but it might do.  The BP 1106 has a solid case back unfortunately.  The Union Glashette doesn't do much for me.  I do like the Limes Pharo, but know nothing regarding their quality.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

This doesn't really address the question as the quality isn't the same, but it gives an idea.

Thanks for the photos...The Limes Pharo is a $1,500 watch which is difficult to compare to a Blancpain.  I was really asking in relative terms to other known brands.

No message body

Have a look at the Longines Silver Arrow. Its not a manually wound watch but its a nice plain watch.

Regards,
Boki

The Du Bois & Fils Record 662 in 38 mm.

www.dubois.de

I had not heard of these.  How would you compare their cost and quality to a more known manufacturer?

I've had a couple Minervas that qualify too, but can't find the pics


Mike











Definitely manual wind, display back



OREA

This message has been edited by cazalea on 2011-01-19 16:29:00

God I love your Seiko but it's easier to find a Blancpain 7002 than on of those.

As I am sure that you know, the Seiko SGBW003 is extremely difficult to find on the used market.  I actually prefer the dial of the SBGW001 and its larger size (37.4 mm), but long for the display caseback of the SBGW003.  The Blancpain Villeret 7002 has definitely got my attention.  It might be a bit small at 36.5 mm, but I like its looks and a reworked pseux is a great movement.  There is something about the Orea, that is not for me.  I think that I prefer Chronoswiss guilloche over enamel.  Its a personal taste thing I suppose.  I believe that it is also 36.5 mm.

My Stowa Antea is 36.5 mm but it has almost no bezel and my JLC RDM is 37.3 mm.  I really think that this is the lower end of size for me.  Something around 38-39 mm would be ideal but I an willing to go downward to 37 mm at the min. and upward to 42 mm at the max. I never realized when I began my search just how difficult this would be!

Case Size: 37-42 mm if round

Case Thickness: <12 mm

Case Material: Stainless Steel

Case Back: Display Back

DIal: Hours. Minutes and Seconds

Movement" Manual Wind

Price Range: <$8,000

Aesthetics: Both dressy and casual, distinct from my other automatic watches

I thought that there would be a myriad of options.  But I suppose manual movements are less popular, larger watches are in vogue, better quality makers focus on precious metals.  This posting has been extremely helpful and pointed me to some new options.  I think the smart man in late January will wait for Basile before taking the leap.

Bob

 

 

 

Somehow this fell under my radar.  It is 40 mm x 7.7 mm and is built around a modified Marvin 700 turned into a Chronoswiss Caliber C. 111.

Thoughts?

I have no experience with the brands quality.  There are two ADs within driving range.

Hi Again,

Here are three candidates that are between 37.4 to 41.8 mm in diameter. They are all similarly priced between $3,500 to $4,500 range.  The Chronoswiss has a modified Marvin 700 caliber (sort of in-house at this point), the Grand Seiko has an inhouse movement (but no display case back :-( and the Dornblueth has a beautifully decorated and finished Unitas 6497.

For reference, I have shown my automatic collection below. Which of these three do you think would make a good addition to my collection? I had not noticed the Chronoswiss before.  It is growing on me.

 

Thanks,

Bob