Horological Meandering

Hi,

I have been revisting a potential chronograph purchase. Must have requirements are stainless steel case, dark dial, running seconds hand and between 39-44 mm (if round).  Nice to haves are good lume and a display case back. Some new watches within my budget I am considering:

• Breguet Type XX Aeronavale
• Breitling Chronomat B01
• Girard-Perregaux Rallye Monte Carlo Classic
• Glashutte-Original Senator Navigator Chronograph
• Habring2 Chronograph (manual wind)
• IWC Big Ingeneur Chronograph
• Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Chronograph
• Zenith Pilot Chronograph

Above my budget, but potentially within reach used are:

• Blancpain Leman Flyback Chronograph & Big Date,
• Rolex Daytona,
• Vacheron Constantin Overseas Chronograph

For context, my current collection is:

• Blancpain Leman Grande Date (2850b-1130a-71),
• Chronoswiss Chronoscope, (CH 1523 BW), Regulateur 24 (CH1123),
• Glashutte Original Panomatic Lunar (90-02-02-02-24),
• IWC Aquatimer 2000 (IW3568-05),
• Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Control Reserve de Marche (148.84.04),
• Officine Panerai Luminor Marina (PAM00111)

So I have a large date, regulateur, lunar, diver, power reserve and a small seconds covered in complications (4 white/silver and 3 black dials).

Some are integrated chronographs and others are using DD modules. Are there other watches that come to mind? Given my budget, requirements and design sensibilities do some of these sound more attractive to you?

Your thoughts are as always appreciated,

Bob

Why is an integrated movement designed, developed and manufactured by Frederic Piguet for Blancpain or Lemania for Breguet (considering that they are now legally integrated) any more "real" than an in-house GO Calibre 39 with a chronograph module designed, developed and manufactured by Dubois-Depraz ?

Kari,

Thanks for clarifying your point.

That leaves only Breitling, IWC, JLC, Zenith and Rolex as true chronograph manufacturers by your standard. The BP and VC use a FP calibre 1185, The GO and the GP use a DD module on their base movements, Breguet uses a Lemania 1372 and Habring2 uses a Valjoux 7733.

Personally, I have  grown to care more about pusher feel, lack of stutter on start, timekeeping, reliability and finish. The Swiss industry worked for years with a non-integrated manufacturing model. I actually think that it is a great way of doing business.

Bob

 

. . . a Glashütte Original in a 39 mm case with an integrated chronograph movement.

[watch and photo courtesy Goh]

[watch and photo courtesy Yong]

The PanoGraph was, in my humble opinion, both a great watch and an amazing value.  It would be worth your while to find one, if only to experience it in person.

Cordially,

No message body

...it is very similar to your Panomatic Lunar.

I believe the movement inside the IWC is a modified Valjoux based on the 7700 line (certainly the positioning of the subdials seems to confirm this).  So it fails whatever "home grown" test one might want to apply....for what it's worth.

The 1185 is a Frederic Piguet movement used by a wide variety of brands, including AP, VC and many others but arguably "in-house" to BP at this point.  I've never heard of JLC using this movement although the architecture and some components of their integrated vertical clutch chronograph bear a striking resemblance to it.

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Bob,

Following Kari's sugggestion, you could select a Daytona from several years ago, and have that Zenith movement AND the Rolex name. I think that would be a great choice. There are plenty on the market and in 10 years of following them, they've never gone much higher or lower than $10k

As a wacky suggestion you might consider a TOP GUN chrono from IWC and get a ceramic case as part of the deal.

Cazalea

With a Daytona in your collection, as already suggested, or why not consider an Omega Speedmaster "Moonwatch"... And you'll have fun getting to grips with them all...

Gary

Are the two examples you didn't mention and which are worth a try...

GP Vintage 45 is another very interesting one ( fully in house ).

In your list, the Breguet Type XX and the JLC black dial are also very good choices.

Try them, your wrist will show you the way.



Best,

Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-11-27 14:19:56

PAM for me but I will never be able to bring myself to paying the price it is asking now or anything close to that.

For example, if you compare the price of any other Pre V with the Mare, the Mare is still ( and it was always the case, curiously ) a bargain.

Best,

Nicolas.

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on your list, the VC Overseas is by far the best choice IMO.  My next choice would be the JLC, good luck deciding.

Tony

The VC was my favorite of all these bracelet chrono's. I regretfully sold it!!!
















I had both the Blancpain and JLC your looking at on the strap. My wrist is 6.5 inches.......






Tony

for the OP, 2 suggestions

1.  Rolex Daytona

2.  If you get the breitling, make sure its the more classic and iconic Navitimer, not the Chronomat.

You may also want to take into account the absurdly high cost of servicing some chronos, particularly from some makes.  Servicing costs can already be high, but chronos can cost double or triple the cost of an ordinary service (or even much more).  There are also more moving parts and so more opportunity for them to screw up the servicing.

Personally, I now have only one chronograph (vintage) and the rest have gone, partly for this very reason and partly because I decided it's just a toy and functionality I never need or use.

nick

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Zenith ElPrimero beating at 36000 vph ; column wheel chrono, inhouse manufacture; A true workhorse; and value for money any time.

My vote would be for Zenith.

If you had the budget then, the GO Panograph of course.

If you can get the  steel Jaeger Reverso Chronographe ( this model is discontinued) on a bracelet, once again you will have the ONLY chrono with a shaped movement. If you are lucky you may get them NOS.

 

regds

narsi

may be you ought to consider a PAM 204 Radiomir (housing a Lemania 1872)

I really like their chronographs Chrono One which have very balanced dial and interesting features of the movement.

Fx

Admittidly not a chronograph, my Habring2 is now my daily beater and it has been for some time. It you do not mind/ like a rather large watch, why don't you drop a line to Richard and Maria Habring and ask them what they can do for you? Even better: tell them what you want, they will answer and you might be hooked.  As mentioned their 42 mmm casing is quite bold and bullet-proof, yet elegant and sporty in the chronograph version. More than just a brand watch, you have here the option of having a watch made especially for you and, if you are so inclined, to accomodate (within reason) some of your own requirements. It is important bearing in mind that the timekeeping quality of their watches is as good is not better than any other listed... Contrary to some of the watches on your list, the Habring 2 is very likely to become your daily beater. It has in my opinion the right blend of robustness/ design inventivness/ wearability/ timekeeping quality and price that make them compulsive daily beaters.
Just my 2 pence
Best Ztirual

Thanks for your responses and comments.  I took a look at some of the suggestions and wanted to share my thoughts.

Breitling Navitimer 01:  I tried one of these on recently at the Breiting boutique in NYC. It is a very nice watch, albeit busy.  I also found the bezel to be quite sharp to the touch. 

Chopard LUC Chrono One: The current models are only available in white or rose gold and are beyond my budget.  The older 2010 stainless steel model is likely within reach either NOS or used (nice watch) but they are few and far between.

Girard-Perregaux Vintage 1945 XXL: The case is just not really my cup of tea.  Also the fact that it has 63 jewels leads me to believe that it is a DD module based movement built upon a GP3300

Glashutte Original Panograph: These are beautiful watches (particularly the movement, but I find it difficult to read.

IWC Pilot Top Gun:  Ceramic cases and large, clumsy owners usually do not mix well.  I also do not like the date window design on this watch

Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso Squadra Chronograph GMT Black: I need to see this watch in the metal to see how readable it is.  It is a possibility.

Omega Speedmaster: I have always considered one.  A classic design, fairly common.  Perhaps the one with a caliber 3201 movement?

Panerai Mare Nostrum:  The watch aesthetically is not to my liking.

Panerai PAM00204: This is an interesting watch.  A Radiomir with a Lemania (Speedmaster) movement that is nicely sized at 42 mm.  It looks as if only 125 of these watches were made so prices are at a premium for what you are getting.

Rolex Daytona: Either a used 16520 (4030) or an 116520 (4130). 

So out of what was suggested as alternatives, I see 4 models that I will add to my list:

Used or NOS:

Chopard LUC Chrono One

New:

Breitling Navitimer 01

Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso Squadra Chronograph GMT Black

Omega Speedmaster (with caliber 3201)

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

 

If you check around you will find a few (4-5 pieces) most NIB offered at almost the same price than when they were issued,
So at the price you can today get one, there are no competition, and added value it is rare with only 125 pieces produced, and a perfect new comer to your collection.

But and of course what matters is what makes you happy ;-)

... has anyone recommended Chopard?  I am and would be much intrigued by Jacky Ickx edition as well as other COSC certified chronos from Chopard.  Or, of course, the Speedy!  From the vintage department, I would love to own Longines 30CH movement one day....

Hope this helps a bit.  The choices are wide - pick whatever speaks to you!

Good hunting!

Ken