Comments:
... after our discussion on the date window of the GP 1999 Chronograph:
gp.watchprosite.com
I searched my soul to realise that I don't require absolute symmetry. While I am drawn to golden ratios and symmetrical pieces, I like a little tension, a 'beauty spot' to give some long term interest. As you said, it is just a personal preference.
And I do like well executed Grand Dates too! Both mechanically and aesthetically pleasing.
Andrew
. . . the better served by apertures, imho. Sorry, but I cringe at perpetuals with pointers and scads of print on the dial.
. . . and the best example I can think of would be the Sinn 756 . . .
. . . which has a date at 4:00 that practically disappears into the dial.
Date displays
A common complaint is how date windows upset the symmetry of dials. Some of you are more sensitive to this than others.
Some prefer date pointers and some prefer windows displaying key information.
I would be very interested in what date displays work or don't work for you.
And if you want to share the most egregious examples of poor date displays then please do!
Andrew
I prefer window to pointer hands for dates.
There are hour, minutes and seconds hands on some watches ( for chrono or some autos) not forgeting other functional hands like GMT. Another date hand would really make it hard to read imho.
cheers
PAt
No particular photo example but...
... one common gripe of mine is when they use a very different font for the date as opposed to the rest of the dial. An example I've seen is a few examples of the Aquanaut where the indices are applied san-serif, and the date is serif (aka Times Roman) - not sure if it's one of the older models.
But things could be worse than that I guess...
Interested to see/read what pet-hates others have regarding dates.
A good date is a missing date. ;)
I like when the date is included in the watch, a necessary part of it of its design.
LIke on the Datograph, which would only be Graph without Date. Which sounds poor!
Like on the sonata... I can't imagine a Sonata without this big date.
But on a ot of watch, you see that the date has been added, and sometimes in a poor way, while the dial would be cleaner, more pure, without.
Just my opinion, of course.
Best,
Nicolas
In some ways you inspired this thread ...
... after our discussion on the date window of the GP 1999 Chronograph:
gp.watchprosite.com
I searched my soul to realise that I don't require absolute symmetry. While I am drawn to golden ratios and symmetrical pieces, I like a little tension, a 'beauty spot' to give some long term interest. As you said, it is just a personal preference.
And I do like well executed Grand Dates too! Both mechanically and aesthetically pleasing.
Andrew
This is an interesting debate.
When we read the foras, we just realize how important the date is.
For some, it is an imperative thing. If the watc has no date, they will decide to pass on it.
So there must be something here i don't get, but which hass to be considered.
Best, my friend.
Nicolas
The more complex the calendar function . . .
. . . the better served by apertures, imho. Sorry, but I cringe at perpetuals with pointers and scads of print on the dial.
As for simple calendars with only a date, my preferences tend towards the innocuous 4:30 position . . .
. . . and the best example I can think of would be the Sinn 756 . . .
. . . which has a date at 4:00 that practically disappears into the dial.
Pointers
Watches with pointer dates do not work for me either. It took me a while to realise it, and there are a couple of watches that I like the effect on, but mostly I am a window man. But I don't like the windows too far out in the periphery. GO and Zenith get that wrong for me. Patek generally get it right.
A
The movement on that GO Karree is ...
... truly a thing of wonder. They use the limited dial Real Estate wonderfully well. Perfect.
Andrew
My preferences are ...
1) No date, like Nicolas
2) Date at 4:30, the true El Primero style
3) Date disk that blends with the dial, like the Sinn U2/LLD date
I consider the date pointer as the worst option.
Cheers
Nilo
2) Date at 4:30, the true El Primero style
3) Date disk that blends with the dial, like the Sinn U2/LLD date
I consider the date pointer as the worst option.
Cheers
Nilo
If it must have a date...
Then a date window it is for me.
I used to favor no dates as it tends to upset symmetry like you said but age does figure into the picture at some point.
Date windows tend to be less cluttered than pointers.
And i have warmed up to the rolex cyclops and i also actually do like the font on it. The date version of the LLD isnt so bad either. I still have to see the date window on the jlc master control. So far though, really, the cyclops work for me on the rolex. The others maybe only acceptable. The cyclops is, i think, an integral part of the rolex aesthetic that's why it is partly forgivable.
I wish i really can go dateless but it has been annoying of late to check thebdate on my wrist only to realize that i,m wearing a milgauss or a speedy :p
I agree with you about the Rolex ...
... cyclops, Echi. Not sure I would enjoy it on any other watch, but it is very special on the vintage pieces with acrylic lenses.
Andrew
All three
Hi All
Again pointer works well with this - not sure a window would. Though it might work without a date at all
Think there's plenty going on here without the need for a date.
This message has been edited by jml_watches on 2012-06-29 12:42:39
Have to say I like all three options. No date, window and pointer. Its all about how it fits into the design.
Pointer works well with this - slightly retro look
An Oris Big Crown
Again pointer works well with this - not sure a window would. Though it might work without a date at all
Nomos
Can't imagine this with a pointer at all - window works fine for this model. Also the no date simple and elegant
Poljot alarm
Think there's plenty going on here without the need for a date.
Finally if you go for a window date - then there are two other thorny issues - go for an oversized date (which I quite like) and where to actually have the date window.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers
JML
I much prefer without date...
But I like this date display. Not practical but it decorates nicely the dial:
Fx
Fx
One of the few pointer date designs I like ...
... as it one's nt interrupt time telling too much and leaves you to enjoy that wonderful dial and Arabic numerals. Bravo (again) De Bethune.
Andrew
Today, I like any date, as long as it is a LARGE DATE ...
I have accept the fact that my eyesight is following my age, and becomes worse at close range. Therefore, I increasingly value the advantages of a big date display, even if this is sometimes compromising a watch's overall design. If the big date display can be centered, as in this example:
I prefer it, since the dial design stays balanced.
In that example, the bid date is placed far from the central exis. However, it somehow counter-balances the weight of the small second at 9, thus I think it is rather acceptable:
From an aesthetic point of view, I prefer pointer-dates like this:
But I now have difficulties to read it.
Regards,
Marcus
I prefer it, since the dial design stays balanced.
In that example, the bid date is placed far from the central exis. However, it somehow counter-balances the weight of the small second at 9, thus I think it is rather acceptable:
From an aesthetic point of view, I prefer pointer-dates like this:
But I now have difficulties to read it.
Regards,
Marcus
Grand and large dates ...
Thanks for the nice examples, Marcus. The other thing that is nice to see with the Union Glashutte is that the two date dials are in the same plane. Aesthetically preferable to my eye, particularly when the dial is viewed at an angle.
Regards
Andrew
The thing that kills me
...is when a date window is too close to the center of the dial, revealing that the movement is way too small for the case. VC have this problem with the Overseas, for instance.
Actually, the same applies for subdials that are crunched together in the middle of the face.
As of late, I'm a big date fan -- and also find that I am increasingly dependent on that quick peek at the wrist to see the date...
Best,
Gary
The date is definitely a practical 'complication' but ...
... it is surprisingly rare to see it done REALLY well.
Hope you enjoyed the thread.
Andrew
Great thread Andrew
I prefer a window date than a pointer , especially on a perpetual calendar. Of course the Big date is definitely preferable. Also I have to mention how I hate a date window that looks cheap and too indented in the dail. One example I saw recently is the IWC portifino eight days. The dail is 45 mm but the date is really small and very indented, it ruined the watch for me. Great thread andrew very interesting .
Best
SamEE
Recessed dates ...
... in dim, dark holes are a definite turnoff. Some designers get around this by using a magnifying cyclops, but it's a poor compromise to my eyes.
Thanks for your comments.
Andrew
I am surprised none of you mentioned ...
... those 'open' date displays where you can see the day before and the day after. As if we can't count. ;-)
And on a tangent, those date windows that have an arrow pointing to them with an inscription "Date". Just in case we can't work it out or forget!
Andrew
These "open" date windows have a practical reason, though ....
... since they permit a reading of the date even when one of the hands is obstructing the view on the "real" date. That doesn't make them look better, of course ...
Regards,
Marcus
Regards,
Marcus
Thanks Marcus, very true ...
... but I won't be able to enjoy the benefit because aesthetically I am put off. Perhaps I will come around in time.
Andrew
Interesting debate...
to which everyone has their own preference/likes/dislikes.
For me it makes no difference if it give you the date or not, whether it is a pointer or window... as long as it looks in the right place and part of the design of the watch. The dates on my watches are 99% wrong anyway as I just pick them up, wind them, set the time and then wear them for a day or so. If I go on holiday for a week or more with one watch (does not happen often) then at some stage I will put the date right.
Cheers
Andrew
For me it makes no difference if it give you the date or not, whether it is a pointer or window... as long as it looks in the right place and part of the design of the watch. The dates on my watches are 99% wrong anyway as I just pick them up, wind them, set the time and then wear them for a day or so. If I go on holiday for a week or more with one watch (does not happen often) then at some stage I will put the date right.
Cheers
Andrew
Which does not happen often?
A holiday for a week or more, or having only one watch?!
I agree with you about the overall design. It has to be congruent. While I like the look of pointer dates, I had to own (and sell) one to realise I don't like the idea.
Interested in your comments about the date setting. I am the opposite. I feel an absolute need to have things set, and I cope with the (potentially) greater inacuacies of mechanical watches by knowing exactly how they perform; how many seconds they are off from the correct time in a given period. I feel a poll coming on. ;-)
Regards,
Andrew
hmmm... only one watch...
Luckily the holidays are frequent... traveling with only one watch does not happen so often!
In the days of just having a couple of watches it used to bother me about the date and making sure that everything was right and even as far as knowing how the watch was running week to week, but I realised that there is more to life and better things to worry about than a few seconds here and there Now I just grab a watch, set the time and then go!
Cheers
Andrew
In the days of just having a couple of watches it used to bother me about the date and making sure that everything was right and even as far as knowing how the watch was running week to week, but I realised that there is more to life and better things to worry about than a few seconds here and there
Now I just grab a watch, set the time and then go!Cheers
Andrew
I don't believe you Andrew... :-)
...when you say "The dates on my watches are 99% wrong anyway..."
Statistically, mathematically, and especially pedantically speaking, you'd have to be very unlucky for the date to be right only 1% of the time. I think about 3.2% of the time is more likely on any given day, ie wrong 96.8% of the time.
Knowing you personally however, I believe that you are a luckier guy than many poeople, so I'm sure your indicated date is going to be right more often anyway...!!
But back to the point of the thread. Pointers and traditional-style windows are a bit passé...I prefer "roller" date indicators, as seen on Christophe Claret's Shebaka...!
Rob
Statistically, mathematically, and especially pedantically speaking, you'd have to be very unlucky for the date to be right only 1% of the time. I think about 3.2% of the time is more likely on any given day, ie wrong 96.8% of the time.
Knowing you personally however, I believe that you are a luckier guy than many poeople, so I'm sure your indicated date is going to be right more often anyway...!!
But back to the point of the thread. Pointers and traditional-style windows are a bit passé...I prefer "roller" date indicators, as seen on Christophe Claret's Shebaka...!
Rob