Richard Mille

There has been some very harsh criticism regarding the reliability of the RM004v2 and I can't defend or contradict either positions. The truth is that the RM004 is a work in process that will keep getting upgrades down the line. This is, in my eyes, part of its charm. I get the "which is the right for me" question many times regarding the RM011 or the RM004. My answer is only dependent on the subject. It's like recommending a '56 Ferrari Testarossa and an F430. Same brand, different customer. One embodies class, exclusivity and history while the other is technology and thrilling performance. One is for connoisseurs only while the other is for thrill seekers. Nothing wrong with being either, I guess that the right choice is identifying who you are and choosing accordingly.

Fact remains that as a proud owner for 3 years now of a RM004v2 it still is my "grail" watch. I must say that I have used my RM004 quite extensively for periods of up to 9 months non-stop. I have actually needed to force myself to NOT WEAR it. Mainly so that all my other watches would not become redundant. Within all these periods there was nothing wrong with it what so ever. I also use the stopwatch about 3 to 4 times per week (for timing my Tea...) I recently sent it back for a "free" upgrade to have the new crown put in and some re-polishing. Not because of any problems with the actual watch. The new crown prevents the over-winding of the barrels. In the last three years now I must say that it was sent once, right at the beginning, because of a problem with one of the hands. I have been using it as an everyday watch ever since.

I have been using my RM004v2 as an everyday watch but I admit I should not have. I say this not because it is a delicate movement and it can't take the work but my reasons are others;

1.- I live in a relatively safe are yet the RM004 is an expensive watch and one day I might get robbed or mugged. Having it on all the times multiplies the chances of having it on at the wrong time and place.
2.- Many times we do things with the watch that put the watch at risk without knowing.
3.- There is a risk of taking the watch for granted. Although this has not happened yet I fear that if I where to wear it all the time it would simply cease to be a big deal anymore.

Hope this helps those that have doubts about the RM004.

D.

Here is a link to a '56 Testarossa... www.expertmotor.com This message has been edited by Dario on 2009-02-10 03:20:44 This message has been edited by Dario on 2009-02-10 03:23:40

I truly appreciate your comments and weighing in.  Glad to see you are still enjoying the watch.  Did others come along after, or did the RM004 really become THE watch and the hunt for others cease?

Cheers

Andrew H

Well, I am afraid the RM004v2 has made me withdraw a "little" from the watch market for a while. Right now it still is my "grail" watch. Even after all this time...

99% of my wrist time can be divided between my UR-103.05 and my RoyalOak "Jumbo". All the other stuff has just not been the same since. Honestly, after getting the RM004v2 there was just no watch to look forward to. At least for the time being.

In order to NOT give up the passion/chase I have started to collect (not wear) Jaeger's Memovox. Believe it or not, it keeps me in the loop.

D.

along and subdues the 'itch'.  I keep in the loop these days with research.  Hoping to bring some material out soon.

Thanks Dario - keep well.

Cheers!

Andrew H

Ive gone really flat since gettng the Rm002, nothing left to aspire too really at the moment, its ticked all my boxes. Feel a bit deflated now that I am not hunting/craving anything else...I dont know if it will pass either because there is nowhere to go for me now. the 2 is it.

I am a guitar player, and with guitars and amps there is always a reason to keep buying...older stuff, differant woods, newer stuff, famous poeples stuff, digital amps, analogue amps etc etc etc..there is a zillion ways to keep you chasing the ultimate sound your looking for..as eddie Van Halen puts it he is a 'tone chaser' and that game never ends. The thrill of the chase is the excitement of a lot of it. With watches now I feel my chase is over, certainly for a while at least, and I feel a little sad about that in some ways!!..weird human nature, or maybe its just me thats a tad weird!!

Mind you my bank balance cannot take anymore big purchases, maybe I need to start a swatch collection or something to keep me in the loop

Thanks for sharing them.
I'm glad that you're enjoying the RM004. It really is a thoroughbred that has it's quirks but once it's tuned properly, it really performs.
When I visited Renaud and Papi a few years ago (this was before they shipped the V2s), they told me that they are spending so much time on each and every one of the 004s that they doubt there is any money made on them. I suspect that when all the existing back-orders are fulfilled, they probably will discontinue making it.

Take a look at what I wrote this morning.

kronosclub.blogspot.com

(please delete if this infringes any forum rules...)

..of the rattrapante then to be honest. OK maybe just be cause its complicated makes it a challenge to produce, but It doesnt add anything to most people does it?...you cannot see it when you look at the watch particularly, and I doubt many people use it very often at all, so it seems a bit pointless to incur so much pain for something of such little use.

At least a Torubillon is nice to look at..just my humble opinion, and just to be clear I am talking about the Rattrapante mechanism, NOT the RM004, the RM004 is a magnificent timepiece, just wouldnt bother me if it was with or without Rattrapante!

...would be to compare a Lange Datograph and DoubleSplit. Both are chronos. The Dato is awesome, yet the DoubleSplit is breathtaking. The reason is that the complication and beauty of the movement are more of a reason to buy it than the complication in itself.

Completely agree that the rattrapante is really useless except for the myth and beauty of the movement. I am probably one of the few that really use the chrono function several times per week. In all this time since I had the RM004 I believe that I used it once for real. All other times are only for demonstration purposes only.

In this case, at least, I would choose myth and beauty. But maybe the other choice would not be that bad either...

I love the rattrapante complication simply for it's beauty and complexity as well. I use chronographs quite a lot for parking meters and cooking but I have no use for a rattrapante except for admiring and playing with. The rattrapante was designed to time multiple contestants in race events and quartz has made it obsolete. Having said this, we can say that all mechanical watches are obsolete so why even buy one if we don't appreciate the workmanship in making them?

It's clearly a matter of preference.  Neither is essential.   You're right that a
tourbillon can always be viewed, but a rattrapante  may be used seldomly,
so score one for the tourbillon movement.  On the other hand, I like the fact
that the user can interact with a chronograph in general and a rattrapante
in particular, but with a tourbillon, there is no interaction, and the owner
is just passively viewing the watch.

It's also possible to have both in the form of a RM008.
Eric von Schonberg

I remember someone saying that there were only 3 V1s made due to the difficulty of adjusting them to work consistently. While talking to Fabrice Deschanel of R&P, he mentioned that the reason they modified the V1 to V2 is to improve on the reliability. There seems to be significantly more reliable v2s out there and if they ever make a V3, it would be even more reliable. We will see if Richard decides to keep making the 004 or not, but I definitely agree that it's not a very profitable watch for them.

Im am glad you are still with your v1, despite you thinking it was a bit too heavy. I will have you know that although "theoretically" the v2 is improved over the v1, your v1 is even more complex and has more parts than a v2. From behind the v1s are even more spectacular.

I wonder, could you take a GOOD shot straight on from the back of your v1? I will do the same with mine. I would love to compare them side by side and seen the evolution from a v1 to a v2. I will take mine this afternoon...

I know from reputable sources that here are only 4 v1s in the market one of which is RMs personal watch. You sure have a heck of a collectors piece there.

D.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/296218/message/1155079768/BONUS+PICTURES+for+all+RM004+fans

richardmille.watchprosite.com

http://richardmilleref.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-632/pi-2161111/ti-338101/s--13/

and finally, this one:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/296218/message/1159897505/Progress+Report+on+the+RM004-V2-+First+Pictures+of+the+New+Production%21

Hope this helps

Andrew H

I personally believe after talking to many watchmakers that the CLASSICAL rattrapante movement is second only to the minute repeater complication in difficulty to make and adjust. The tourbillon looks simple compared with it. Patek has priced their ref 5959 rattrapante at a price higher than their simple minute repeater since they have less trained watchmakers that are able to work on this complication. Try to find an independent watchmaker who has made a rattrapante from scratch. Most use Venus or Valjoux ebauches. Compare that with all the independently designed tourbillons.
The 7750 based rattrapantes have lowered the entry price to own a split-second chrono drastically, but they are no where close to being as beautiful as the classical dual column wheel rattrapante.

Just look at the length of the rattrapante axle. It runs through the entire movement and It's almost as long as the thickness of the whole watch! This rattrapante axle runs inside of the hollow chronograph seconds axle/tube. Any tiny bit of misalignment or bending will cause unwanted extra friction and the 2 hands will get stuck or malfunction.







This message has been edited by Allen on 2009-02-10 11:43:59

I understand the complication of the Rattrapante a little more now through these replies thankyou. Indeed the back of the RM004 is beautiful, and obviously when you know your way around the technical aspects of such a watch then you can admire it more for its complexity in being what it is.

I am going to do a lot more research into watch moevements and how they work etc as I feel a bit of a luddite in that respect!

I think that few people will disagree that something as innovative as Richard Mille's
complicated watches (including RM004, RM008, and all the tourbillons) will have
problems that come up from time to time.

But, what is ultimately important is customer service.  When someone spends a
great deal of money on  a watch, it is important that the customer be taken care of
within a reasonable amount of time.  A watch should not be in service for many
months with ultimately no end in sight for the problem being resolved.

RM004 is definitely an innovative movement, and eventually as we read about
fewer problems,and about any problems that do come up getting resolved in
a timely manner, it could ultimately become a major feather in Richard Mille's cap.

I can even see myself getting one eventually, and if I'm happy with it, I'll be even
louder in praise than I've been in criticism.
Eric von Schonberg

In my case time is not of such importance. I accept that in order to get things done right one better do it without somebody breeding down your neck. It is counter productive to speedup things as complicated as watches.

I will also have you know that other, much more prestigious brands take even longer than RM for lesser reasons. My last affair regarding that is a watch that I send in for polish and adjusting the date disk of an annual calendar. I total this has taken them 9 months... For polishing and adjusting a flaw that came from the manufacture. If anybody wants, I have no problem in giving the Brand's name, yet I am not sure if it would infringe any forum rules.

Maybe the REAL problem here is that when you complain you get a whole lot of excuses and no solutions. And even worse, not will to give solutions. Here, thankfully, RM does know there are problems, admits that there are problems and actually works in order to correct these problems. Many others don't are not even close to that mentality.

Poor after sales/customer service his is a concern within ALL swiss watch manufacturing industry. I guess the only moment when my blood starts to BOIL is when I hear; "... within acceptable parameters". Acceptable what?!? My answer to this comment is; "...since I paid for the watch I would rather take MY personal parameters and not yours, but thanks anyway.I just spent a fortune on a watch I think that I am entitled to my set of parameters. Wouldn't you agree?" Again, this attitude is an ILLNESS shared by most Customer Services in the industry.

D.

and pretty much to the rest of the guys. Makes me realize that missing out on the RM 004 V2 ti when it was being offered to me before as probably the closest thing to THE oversight of my watch life. Oh well. One can always still dream. Thanks again for the great thread and congrats to the lucky and happy owners

If you want one new, they are still being sold by ADs, and given the state of the economy, you ought to be able to get one at a substantial discount.

And, if you want to buy one in mint condition from another collector, you'll notice that they are being offered for mere fraction of their price new.

So, your opportunity has not been lost.
Eric von Schonberg

Out of curiosity... could you email me at the discounts offered and collectors that are willing to sell theirs at a fraction of the price? What discounts are we talking about? How much are they going second hand?

I am not in the market for one yet I thought that this was a difficult piece to come by.

Thanks,
D.