Comments:
How much RM035 really weighs
I've seen greatly varying accounts of how much the RM035 weighs. In this forum, 35g is mentioned. On various versions of the announcement I've seen both 41g and "under 20g". On Richard Mille's web site, the specs for RM035 list the exact weight of the movement, along with other minutiae, but no mention of the total weight of RM035. This is surprising, since the RM027 is mentioned as being 18g with the strap, and 13g without the strap.
Fortunately, it's possible to figure a fairly precise estimate of the weight of RM035, establishing it is around 20g, and certainly much lighter than the 35g mentioned here.
It's possible to make this estimate based upon measures of the RM010. Here's how I did it ...
First we need to know the volume of the case metal for the RM010. Using a precise gram scale, I weighed my titanium RM010 and found it to be 65g with the kevlar strap and titanium deployant (actually 64.99g was the weighing). I have a friend who weighed his white gold RM010 and got 165g. Thats's a difference of roughly 100g (assuming his 165g weighing with a less precise balance is accurate). Since titanium has a density of 4.5 g/cc and 18K white gold has a density of 16.9 g/cc, it's easy to compute the volume of the case material to be 100g/(16.7 g/cc - 4.5 g/cc)=8.2 cc.
I should mention, this volume computed is the total volume of all the titanium metal on my RM010, including both case and buckle (my friend's RM010 has a white gold case and white gold buckle, but everything else is the same on our RM010s).
Let's assume that the RM035 has a case that is no thicker than the case of the RM010. It wouldn't make sense for it to be thicker if they are trying to reduce the weight! The density of the magnesium-aluminum alloy on the RM035 case and buckle is 1.8 g/cc. So, if the RM035 had the exact same dimension case as the RM010, the RM035 would be lighter by the following amount: 8.2cc(4.5g/cc - 1.8 g/cc)=22.1 g.
But, we have to adjust for two things. The RM035 is actually a little thinner (12.25mm vs 13,84mm) than the RM010 and the RM035 does not have a sapphire display back. The 2 sides of the RM035 are roughly 13.84mm - 12.25mm=1.59mm=0.159 cm thinner. Assuming a case thickness of roughly 0.2 cm (2 mm) and a length of each side roughly 5cm (it's 48mm but curved), then the thinner RM035 is also this much lighter: 2 (1.8 g/cc)(0.159cm)(0.2cm)(5.0cm)=0.57 g.
More of a savings results from not having the sapphire display back. The RM010 has a sapphire display back that is 1.0mm in the center and 1.7mm at the edges. With a little integral calculus it follows that a sapphire back with a uniform 1.39mm would have the same volume. The display back is roughly 28mm x 30mm. Sapphire is 4g/cc, so its mass is roughly 4g/cc(0.139cm)(2.8cm)(3.0cm)=4.7g. Assuming once again a case thickness of 2mm on the RM035, it has a mass of magnesium-aluminum case in place of this sapphire case back weighing a total of 1.8g/cc(0.2cm)(2.8cm)(3.0cm)=3.0g. So, not having the display back means a savings of 4.7g - 3.0g=1.7g.
Much more savings comes from the strap. The RM035 has about the same polyurethane strap that the RM027 uses. Since the RM027 weighs 18g with that strap and 13g without that strap, the polyurethane strap weighs 18g - 13g=5g. I weighed an old one of my RM010 kevlar straps (identical to the one on my RM010) and it came to 10g. So, using the polyurethane saved 10g - 5g=5g.
Further savings comes from not having the titanium deployant which weighed in at 7g.
The movement of the RM035 is essentially a RM010 movement with a few modifications to make it lighter. The main modification is removing the rotor, which I've heard weighs about what a US nickel weighs, or 5g.
Putting all this together, we can estimate the weight of the RM035 from the weight of the titanium RM010 as follows:
65g (Titanium RM010) - 22.1g (case material) - 0.57g (case thickness) - 1.7 (no display back) - 5g (lighter strap) - 7g (no deployant) - 5g (no rotor)=23.6g.
So, the "less than 20g" is posible if there are 3.6g of further savings in the movement rework. But, it should be quite clear from the above estimates that 35g and 41g are too heavy for RM035.
In any case a weight of 23.6g is quite impressive for the RM035. That's about 1/3 the weight of a RM010! You'd think that Richard Mille would want to mention that in its press releases, instead of simply mentioning the weight of the movement.
Greg
Fortunately, it's possible to figure a fairly precise estimate of the weight of RM035, establishing it is around 20g, and certainly much lighter than the 35g mentioned here.
It's possible to make this estimate based upon measures of the RM010. Here's how I did it ...
First we need to know the volume of the case metal for the RM010. Using a precise gram scale, I weighed my titanium RM010 and found it to be 65g with the kevlar strap and titanium deployant (actually 64.99g was the weighing). I have a friend who weighed his white gold RM010 and got 165g. Thats's a difference of roughly 100g (assuming his 165g weighing with a less precise balance is accurate). Since titanium has a density of 4.5 g/cc and 18K white gold has a density of 16.9 g/cc, it's easy to compute the volume of the case material to be 100g/(16.7 g/cc - 4.5 g/cc)=8.2 cc.
I should mention, this volume computed is the total volume of all the titanium metal on my RM010, including both case and buckle (my friend's RM010 has a white gold case and white gold buckle, but everything else is the same on our RM010s).
Let's assume that the RM035 has a case that is no thicker than the case of the RM010. It wouldn't make sense for it to be thicker if they are trying to reduce the weight! The density of the magnesium-aluminum alloy on the RM035 case and buckle is 1.8 g/cc. So, if the RM035 had the exact same dimension case as the RM010, the RM035 would be lighter by the following amount: 8.2cc(4.5g/cc - 1.8 g/cc)=22.1 g.
But, we have to adjust for two things. The RM035 is actually a little thinner (12.25mm vs 13,84mm) than the RM010 and the RM035 does not have a sapphire display back. The 2 sides of the RM035 are roughly 13.84mm - 12.25mm=1.59mm=0.159 cm thinner. Assuming a case thickness of roughly 0.2 cm (2 mm) and a length of each side roughly 5cm (it's 48mm but curved), then the thinner RM035 is also this much lighter: 2 (1.8 g/cc)(0.159cm)(0.2cm)(5.0cm)=0.57 g.
More of a savings results from not having the sapphire display back. The RM010 has a sapphire display back that is 1.0mm in the center and 1.7mm at the edges. With a little integral calculus it follows that a sapphire back with a uniform 1.39mm would have the same volume. The display back is roughly 28mm x 30mm. Sapphire is 4g/cc, so its mass is roughly 4g/cc(0.139cm)(2.8cm)(3.0cm)=4.7g. Assuming once again a case thickness of 2mm on the RM035, it has a mass of magnesium-aluminum case in place of this sapphire case back weighing a total of 1.8g/cc(0.2cm)(2.8cm)(3.0cm)=3.0g. So, not having the display back means a savings of 4.7g - 3.0g=1.7g.
Much more savings comes from the strap. The RM035 has about the same polyurethane strap that the RM027 uses. Since the RM027 weighs 18g with that strap and 13g without that strap, the polyurethane strap weighs 18g - 13g=5g. I weighed an old one of my RM010 kevlar straps (identical to the one on my RM010) and it came to 10g. So, using the polyurethane saved 10g - 5g=5g.
Further savings comes from not having the titanium deployant which weighed in at 7g.
The movement of the RM035 is essentially a RM010 movement with a few modifications to make it lighter. The main modification is removing the rotor, which I've heard weighs about what a US nickel weighs, or 5g.
Putting all this together, we can estimate the weight of the RM035 from the weight of the titanium RM010 as follows:
65g (Titanium RM010) - 22.1g (case material) - 0.57g (case thickness) - 1.7 (no display back) - 5g (lighter strap) - 7g (no deployant) - 5g (no rotor)=23.6g.
So, the "less than 20g" is posible if there are 3.6g of further savings in the movement rework. But, it should be quite clear from the above estimates that 35g and 41g are too heavy for RM035.
In any case a weight of 23.6g is quite impressive for the RM035. That's about 1/3 the weight of a RM010! You'd think that Richard Mille would want to mention that in its press releases, instead of simply mentioning the weight of the movement.
Greg
Very scientific!
I just believed this number measured at the boutique with the correct strap and the buckle on.
Says 41g. But this was the auction piece with white model number. So, that may be a bit different....
Interesting to letting us wonder about this
Bottom line - very light, but a bit less light than 027... either case, very intriguing model, I say.
Thank you for the good read.
Ken
Says 41g. But this was the auction piece with white model number. So, that may be a bit different....
Interesting to letting us wonder about this
Bottom line - very light, but a bit less light than 027... either case, very intriguing model, I say.Thank you for the good read.
Ken
Then here's what's amazing ...
After figuring it should be possible for it to weigh 23g, it's surprising to see a weight of 41g clearly shown on the scale! Are you sure there isn't a weighing pan or something that needs to be subtracted? In other words, what weight is registered after the watch is taken off that white weighing pan? If that white weighing pan weighed 20g then it would all make sense, because then the weight would be 41g-20g=21g.
Another way to look at it ... Suppose I could put the polyurethane strap on my titanium RM010. Then, my RM010 would weigh 65g - 5g - 7g=53g. Then, we'd be doing an apples-apples comparison of RM010 to RM035, since they would have the same strap. If so, then at 41g for the RM035 versus 53g for the RM035, the RM035 would not be so much better.
If the RM035 is really 41g, one has to wonder why the effort to create a new case out of the ultra-light magnesium-aluminum alloy. Without even developing a new case material, the RM010 could have been simply modified by removing the rotor, making the case thinner (as thin as RM035, since the rotor is gone), and with a polyurethane strap. If that were done, then without even resorting to magnesium-aluminum alloy, it would be possible to develop a new ultra-light manual wound watch based upon the RM010 with the following weight: 65g (RM010) - 5g (rotor) - 1.4g (thiner case - move savings than the 0.57g savings, since it's less titanium versus less magnesium-aluminum) - 5g (polyurethane strap) - 7g (titanium deployant)=46.6g.
So, such a watch at 46.6g would weigh not much more than the RM035 does a 41g, without even needing a magnesium-aluminum case!
If Richard Mille were to offer such a variant of the RM010 in titanium that is manual wind, with a polyurethane strap, and weighing 46g, I'd definitely interested, since it is only 5g heavier than a RM035.
On the other hand, if the RM035 actually weighs less, because maybe the white pan needs to be subtracted to yield 21g for RM035, then the RM035 starts to look much more interesting that the variant of the RM010 I was just mentioning.
By the way, I don't think there is any significant difference between that auction version and the production version. At least none of the differences would account for any weight difference.
Greg
Another way to look at it ... Suppose I could put the polyurethane strap on my titanium RM010. Then, my RM010 would weigh 65g - 5g - 7g=53g. Then, we'd be doing an apples-apples comparison of RM010 to RM035, since they would have the same strap. If so, then at 41g for the RM035 versus 53g for the RM035, the RM035 would not be so much better.
If the RM035 is really 41g, one has to wonder why the effort to create a new case out of the ultra-light magnesium-aluminum alloy. Without even developing a new case material, the RM010 could have been simply modified by removing the rotor, making the case thinner (as thin as RM035, since the rotor is gone), and with a polyurethane strap. If that were done, then without even resorting to magnesium-aluminum alloy, it would be possible to develop a new ultra-light manual wound watch based upon the RM010 with the following weight: 65g (RM010) - 5g (rotor) - 1.4g (thiner case - move savings than the 0.57g savings, since it's less titanium versus less magnesium-aluminum) - 5g (polyurethane strap) - 7g (titanium deployant)=46.6g.
So, such a watch at 46.6g would weigh not much more than the RM035 does a 41g, without even needing a magnesium-aluminum case!
If Richard Mille were to offer such a variant of the RM010 in titanium that is manual wind, with a polyurethane strap, and weighing 46g, I'd definitely interested, since it is only 5g heavier than a RM035.
On the other hand, if the RM035 actually weighs less, because maybe the white pan needs to be subtracted to yield 21g for RM035, then the RM035 starts to look much more interesting that the variant of the RM010 I was just mentioning.
By the way, I don't think there is any significant difference between that auction version and the production version. At least none of the differences would account for any weight difference.
Greg
Good point.
.. but I was there and the scale was showing "0g" before putting 035 on.
So, let's hear what Stephen will find out when he gets his one!
Ken
So, let's hear what Stephen will find out when he gets his one!
Ken
One of the earlier releases states that
The RM 35 is 15 grams weights to the 27, and assuming if we take even the lightest weight of the 27 that is the watch without the strap which is 18 grams, you get 33 grams.
That is believe is the weight of the 35's case, and makes sense if you plus 2 from the strap to get 35.
I get what you are saying about the need for the case, that even without having to go through all the process of forming a new case material that you'd still get something very light with the watch based on the 10 by removing and doing some modifications to it.
But then you'd be missing the point because it is in the very veins of RM to experiement and introduce nouveau materials into the world of haute horlogerie. Even if there isn't much of a savings difference from your calculations, the effort that he goes into creating the watch out of Alu-Magnesium is what he is selling at the bottomline, not the weight difference. It's kinda like with the 38, which comes in even heavier than the 35 at 48 grams, you can see that comparing to the 27 it's heavier, much then for this piece i believe it's the structure of the movement, the construction and the unique beauty of it that should get the limelight, not it's weight.
It's true that for the 27 the weight is probably IT, but then i find that too many folks are focussing a little too much on the fact that it is the lightest mechanical tourbillon ever in history that they totally miss the point with the other masterpieces from the house of Haute de Gamme.
So i applaude RM very much for his effort in creating this brand new case material from the world of high-performance automotive and aerospace industry, which is light weight, corrosion resistance and has a particular longevity.
Ciao!
Stephen
don't want anyone to think I'm criticizing RM035
I'm just trying to make some sense of why it weighs a lot more at 41g than the 23g I figured it ought to weigh. I just assumed that the ultra light-weight magnesium-aluminum alloy was used to make the case much lighter. It still doesn't make sense to me that you could get a watch down to 46g with a titanium case if you made the RM010 a manual wind and gave it a poly urethane strap. That's only 5g away from the 41g. I'm wondering what accounts for the extra 41g - 23g=18g of the RM035. Perhaps the case of the RM035 is much thicker than the case of the RM010 and that explains some of the extra weight. Since titanium is so much stronger than magnesium, maybe the case of the RM035 just has to be thicker. But, then what was the purpose of using the lighter magnesium-aluminum if the case had to be thicker? Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize RM035, but just trying to understand why it is so much heavier than I would have expected.
Greg
Greg
this explain the mystery
Recall that I computed the volume of the RM010 case based upon a difference between the weighings of my titanium RM010 and a friend's white gold RM010. Although I weighed mine precisely to within 1/100 of a gram, it seems my friend's weighing was not so precise. So, I estimated the area of the case surface directly (25.875 cm2) and multiplied by a more precise measurement of the case thickness (1.7mm) to get a total volume of 4.4 cc, as opposed to the 8 cc estimated from the weighing differences.
After taking into account the difference in case sizes between RM010 and RM035, the RM010 case in titanium weighs 19.79g and the RM035 in magnesium-aluminum weights7.41g, so there is a savings of 19.79g - 7.41g=12.38g by going with the lighter case materials.
After going through the rest of the calculations, it seems the RM035 should weigh 33.6g.
This is very close to the 35g mentioned on this forum for RM035. Is it possible that the unique one that was auctioned and weighs 41g is heavier than the regular edition RM035?
Does anyone know what are the differences if any between the RM035 that was auctioned and the regular edition RM035?
Greg
After taking into account the difference in case sizes between RM010 and RM035, the RM010 case in titanium weighs 19.79g and the RM035 in magnesium-aluminum weights7.41g, so there is a savings of 19.79g - 7.41g=12.38g by going with the lighter case materials.
After going through the rest of the calculations, it seems the RM035 should weigh 33.6g.
This is very close to the 35g mentioned on this forum for RM035. Is it possible that the unique one that was auctioned and weighs 41g is heavier than the regular edition RM035?
Does anyone know what are the differences if any between the RM035 that was auctioned and the regular edition RM035?
Greg
As far as I understand it...
... there is no difference except for the white model number. Should "33.6g" include strap/buckle? Sometimes people talk about the weight with/ without the strap, at least in case of 027...
Ken
weights with and without straps/buckles
Ok, if there is no difference between the auction version of the RM035 and the regular one, then I still can't account for the difference between 33.6g and the measured 41g.
The 33.6g does includes everything, so it includes the strap and buckle.
I've read that the RM027 is 13g without strap/buckle and 18g with strap/buckle.
Greg
The 33.6g does includes everything, so it includes the strap and buckle.
I've read that the RM027 is 13g without strap/buckle and 18g with strap/buckle.
Greg
If your calculations are true
I'd turn out to be an even happier man!
Whatever the final results are, the lighter it becomes, the better!
Also i have a scale newly purchased ready to measure this beauty the moment i get it, so do stay tuned and we shall see what the final production version comes in at!
Cheers!
Stephen
I'm hearing things all the way
From as early as September all the way to November!
Who knows?!
But rest assured that i will do the weighing and post the shot soon after!
Cheers
Stephen