Jaeger-LeCoultre

I am new to the forum and wanted to canvas members' views on the following.

My wife has asked me to choose a watch for my 40th birthday.  After much research I have settled on the JLC Master series, because I like watches to be descrete and elegant.  However, my wrist is very slim (6.5 inches) and all but one of the current Master series sits too big on my arm.  The one exception is the RMD which is 37mm diameter - the only one of the current series under 40mm.  I am by no means an officianado so my question is this: why are the power reserve (and date and small seconds) complications so sought after?   Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question.  I always go by the rule that the only really stupid question is the one you don't ask!

Thanks in advance.

 

I can't agree more with you on the fact that the only silly question is the one you don't ask.

You will see here a lot of fans of the RDM.

I woldn't say that it houses " sought after " complications, but it is indeed a lovely and very temtping watch.

The layout of the dial is awesome.

Unbalanced, yes, but in some way very classy, quite Vintage, well finished, quite timeless.

With this watch, you may havbe the feeling to wear a Vintage, a Classic watch, while it is a modern one.

The blue HEATED second, power reserve and date hands are the cherry on the cake, with these superb dauphine hands, and the applied indexes and indexes numbers.

Sober, understated but so elegant.

The last point is that you will be able to see the movement ( Cal 938, if I'm correct ), through the sapphire case back.

I let the owners of this watch speak for it, but if you ask me, I'd say yes, it is a desirable watch.

Welcome here, by the way.

Looking forward to hear more from you,

Best,

Nicolas

MJT,

If you have a watch winder and the watch will be on it all the time when not on the wrist, then the power meter is not that useful.

However if your expected Master Reserve de Marche is not something you wear all the time and you don't use a watch winder, then it is very useful to know when approximately the watch will stop. For example if you are traveling and you rely on the watch the next morning to tell time, you want to make sure it still has 10+ hours of power left before hitting the bed. Or you will be sitting in a half day meeting (without much movement), you can check to see how much you can trust the watch won't stop as the meeting progress. Or you have a desk job ... Well, you get the idea.

Unlike a manual wind, you shouldn't manually wind an automatic all the way, and so it's hard to tell at which point the watch is at full reserve.

That said, with your wrist size, you should also look at both the 34mm MUT and the 38mm MUT. Although JLC intended to discontinue the 34mm MUT earlier this year, it has since decided otherwise. With my MUT I don't have the problem in guessing when it will stop. I pick up the watch, give it about 20 winds until it won't let me wind any more, and I know it will stop after 38 hours. Plain and simple.

Another round watch you could also contemplate is the old Master Hometime (2008 and older). However the disadvantage of that watch is it doesn't have the reserve de marche meter. And although it is 40mm, with the thick bezel and relatively busy dial, it fits a 6.5" wrist quite well too. Unfortunately the same size new/current Hometime will look too big on your wrist as the thin bezel will make it looks a lot bigger than the old Hometime. Similarly the 40mm Master Control will look funny too. Although the bezel is the same thickness as the old Hometime, the dial is too simple and so it appears quite a bit bigger than the old Hometime on the wrist.

Good luck in any JLC, especially the RDM.

Thanks both.

In relation to complications being "sought after", I was asking in general rather than specifically in relation to the RDM.  I figured that maybe complications were seen by officianados as desirable because they represent a greater level of technical accomplishment?

I'm also curious about the observation that the RMD is "unbalanced".  Could you elaborate?

MartyW, I've looked at the MUT but I want a date display, and I believe I'm right in saying that none of the MUT's have them.

MJT

MJT,

Yes, you are right that neither of the MUTs has a date window. I now understand why you haven't mentioned them in your OP.

I don't know much about the inner working of the reserve de marche complication, and so I can't comment on it. But you are also right that most of the time this complication is only associated with the top of the line models.

I think when Nicolas said "unbalanced", he refers to the asymmetrical dial layout of the RDM. Many people do think the layout of the RDM is very pleasing to the eyes, and as an owner of one, myself included. The use of "unbalanced" really isn't a snub on the RDM.

Welcome to the Forum.  In selecting to go with a JLC you have chosen wisely, and I think you will not go wrong no matter which you choose. 

If I had a wrist size like yours, I would go for the MUT (original 34mm version) without any hesitation whatsoever. Not even a single doubt. 

You must decide how important the date function is, of course, but there is something really sublime about the time-only MUT in terms of its apparant simplicity. I say "apparant" becuse the MUT is actually a complicated watch, arguably the best ultra-slim watch made.   The incredibly thin and wonderful movement is assembled in a special section of the JLC Manufacture reserved for the most complicated watches.  I think it is a perfect dress or everyday watch.  To me the ultra thin feature as executed in the MUT trumps a date function, a small seconds subdial and a power reserve indication. These are just my personal preferences, but that is how I would make the decision.

That said, Mercelo's photograph in this thread offers a very compelling case for the RDM.

Good luck with your decision.

respo

PS - By the way, your wife sounds very nice and generous.  Is she married? LOL.

Thanks respo.  Is the 34mm version still available new (do JLC still make them?) or would I have to source one pre-owned?  I don't feel confident enough to go down the pre-owned route, so it's an important consideration.  Also, I'm looking at SS only, for budgetary reasons, if that makes any difference.

But :

1/ Even if it is discontinued, you can find one new in box easily at your AD or at a JLC Boutique.

2/ When the new MUTs were presented ( 2008 ), it was not planned to stop the MUT 34 mm.

Will have to ask to JLC.

Best,

Nicolas

available in stainless steel.  The 34mm MUT is still listed on the JLC website at any rate.  In any case, and as Nicolas already pointed out, I think you should have no problem locating a new one from an AD if you wish, so you can avoid the secondhand market.

Best,

respo

This message has been edited by respo on 2009-10-01 11:50:27

along with the RDM for comparison.

... although I note the MUT is more expensive than the RDM :-(

 

I was under the impression that the 34mm MUT is actually a little less expensive than the RDM if you are comparing stainless steel on a leather strap for both models.  I could be wrong, however. 

respo 

The MUT is around 500 Euros less expensive than the Master RDM ( both in SS, of course ).

Best,

Nicolas

also, how do the movements compare in each?  I gather from another post in this thread that the RDM has an updated movement but the MUT uses an existing (older) one?

The Cal 938 is a nice movement, but I would rate the Manual Cal 849 above.

This is a superb caliber, with a nicer finish compared to the Cal 938.

Therefore, you don't have to forget that Ultra Thin movements are a kind of defy.

With 1, 85 mm thick, the 849 is a defy indeed!

If you ask me which of these 2 is my favorite, I will answer without hesitation the Cal 849.

Best,

Nicolas

Marcelo

... not to mention a fantastic picture - great camera work.

I have to tell you it's been a frustrating search.  Having decided on a JLC I then discovered that the Master range is all 40mm or larger (and, as I mentioned, too big for my wrist).  What I'd love is a Master Classic or Master Grand Taille, but I gather JLC are no longer making either.  I'm too nervous about the pitfalls of buying one pre-owned, so by a process of elimination that only leaves the RDM.  In some ways, that's a strange route by which to make a decision, but I find it stranger still that of all the Master series, one model only is 37mm and all the others larger.  Is it just me, or is there some logic after all in going larger with all but one of a particular line? 

I’ve been curious about that too for quite some time too...

 

Maybe some of our fellows can enlighten us

 

And thanks for the kind words on my picture – if you knew the camera I used to take it you wouldn’t believe me...

 

Marcelo

The MUT new version is 38 mm...

Master RDM apart, yes, all the other are around 40 mm, or a bit more.

It seems to be the new standard for watches.

Best,

Nicolas

Nicolas, that would be logical if every watch in the line was 40mm or larger, but what I don't get is why the RDM should have stayed smaller.   Why would you enlarge all but one of your models?  

In the catalogue?

This is just my guess, it is the only reason which comes to my mind.

It has been a long time in the catalogue without any change, by the way...

Best,

Nicolas

why the RDM stays as it is. But I am not complaining.

When JLC came out with the ceramic ball bearing, autoractor and free-sprung balance, what we have was

A) 37mm Master Grand Taille discontinued, now it's Master Control at 40mm,

B) 38mm Master Geographic discontinued, now it's 40mm Master Geographic,

C) 37mm Master Moon discontinued, replaced by 40mm Master Calendar,

D) 37mm Master RDM remains, only the caliber 928 upgraded to 938 with the aforementioned enhancements,

E) 37mm Master Perpetual discontinued, now it's 41mm Master Perpetual,

F) 37mm Master Grand Reveil discontinued, now it's 41mm Master Grand Reveil

And of course 34mm MUT remained totally unchanged: no free-sprung balance.

So if my list is complete, only RDM and MUT didn't have any size increase at that time. Of course JLC did try to "move up" the MUT in late 2008 by releasing the new 38mm MUT. Assuming everyone will now buy the new 38mm MUT, it planned on to discontinue the 34mm this year. But I guess the sales figure told them otherwise and so JLC is keeping the 34mm in production at least for the meantime.

So why JLC didn't change RDM? I have two mutually exclusive reasons:

i) RDM only sells in low volume. It's not worthwhile to design a new casing and dial for something people rarely buy,

ii) RDM sells like hotcake and you don't change a winning formula.

In the end I don't know why, and I only know my RDM is a good looking watch.

This message has been edited by MartyW on 2009-10-01 11:13:28

I sold (and miss greatly) the Master Moon with silver dial. You could look for a used one. It's a GREAT daily watch.

-Dean

Especially your “mutually exclusive reasons”. 

 

Marcelo

This message has been edited by marcelo on 2009-10-02 17:00:50

I just got my MUT 34mm and am loving it more daily....so expectedly I would highly recommend it. You would have read all the good things about it.

The other suggestion is for the old Master Hometime, which I also own. Its a great watch where you have the option to show or hide the 2nd time zone. Keep the dial simple when you are at home, and only use the 2nd time zone when travelling. And of course it shows the date.

Really depends on how you want to use your watch....complications for practical use or complication for beauty....if you can prioritise what functions you must have or nice to have, i think it might help you better.

I have a small Asian wrist as well and I can say both of these sit very well on the wrist without looking too big or too small.

Ok, well I finally got to try on the MUT 34mm today.  It is very nice indeed.

The lady at the AD also showed me a Zenith Elite Automatic (01.1125.680/01.C490).  It is similar in style and size to the JLC, but with a date and second hand (I'm quite keen on a date function and the MUT doesn't have one).  There is also a fairly significant price difference.  However, price aside, how do the two compare?  The AD suggested that there's actually not much between them, which seems odd given the price difference of over GBP1k. 

 

a superb watch, and of course if it steals your heart, then so you should pursue this one!

That said, it seems you are open to considering other options, and I think the 34mm Ultrathin is worth examining.  You are
 especially well positioned to enjoy this watch, for a few reasons:

-- you apparently like the JLC Master series aesthetics, of which the MUT is a sterling example

-- you have an appropriately-small wrist, not a necessity but still an advantage

-- while the introduction of a larger version will probably increase the visibility of the earlier version, It seems clear that the
current    34mm MUT is near the end of its regular production.  With this in mind, consider that it already an historic watch, one
which bears    not only visual and tactile but also architectural and horological examination (see John Davis' article:  click here

-- the design and finish of the movement really is a notch above other large-series-production JLCs, and even for less money

-- now that we are 40 years into the quartz era it seems almost certain that the multi-century quest for a 'better-thinner' watch
movement is probably over, and the cal. 849 is probably the winner.

Also, this is a stunning watch, in pretty much every version!

Have members used xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?  It's an online dealer which seems to be about xx% cheaper than ADs.  I just want to check that it's legit.

***GREY MARKET DEALER DELETED PER FORUM RULES****

 

 

This message has been edited by DRMW on 2009-10-03 11:53:59

Never give bad or good points ( references ) to sellers.

Some Web Sites do, not us.

Best,

Nicolas