Comments:
For me this collection looks like they tried to accomplish something new but couldn't resist to stay away from the mighty Royal Oak.
It just confirms that they're too dependant on that particular line. Not exactly what I'd describe as "pushing forward and trying". Also the marketing was really awkward, which created lots of the negativity. The limited perpetual calender with the aventurine dial looks nice though. Personally I wished that they would've created a classical dresswatch line like from Patek Philippe.
This sub-thread of balanced and reasoned takes on the new watch line are why I enjoy watchprosite.
The posts of "oh AP is finished as a brand/these watches are just like [insert cheap brand]/woe is me" are everywhere.
You know, I like the case a lot. When I saw the teaser pictures showing the cutout lugs I was already somewhat intrigued.
The RO design cue, I am 100% good with. It was in my opinion an nicely thought out way to do this. The Royal Oak IS their brand right now whether they or we like it and so I think (especially when it's a positive, which the RO clearly is) the. use it, don't hide from it.
(My opinions are those not of a AP fan, or a student of AP. I owned one AP in the past which was a ROC and I would want to have a RO back in the collection at some point. I pay attention to AP, but I'm not following diligently. There are plenty of real AP fans here, real buyers who support the brand and real students of AP that know the history. I'm curious to hear those reactions and thoughts.)
(My opinions are those not of a AP fan, or a student of AP. I owned one AP in the past which was a ROC and I would want to have a RO back in the collection at some point. I pay attention to AP, but I'm not following diligently. There are plenty of real AP fans here, real buyers who support the brand and real students of AP that know the history. I'm curious to hear those reactions and thoughts.)
I understand your point of view but for me it's not way to think in this case.
He literally said they wanted to push forward and show that they're not just Royal Oak, yet the case band includes the Royal Oak. To say it in the words of Steve Hallock: "AP tried to look innovative without innovating, to take no risk.". Sometimes it's better to either take risks or stick with something old. Letting the Millenary die and getting replaced by this? Not sure if this was the smartest choice.
I don't think the 11.59 is replacing the millenary
It's replacing the Jules Audemars Line of dress watch
The fact that they are trying to diversify away from the RO / ROO is certainly to be applauded...
Whether the result is all everybody expected - well looking at the responses, probably not. Yet as you say it’s early days and not all buyers are collectors - meaning tastes may differ.
I feel they can be applauded for keeping the cases reasonably sized at 41mm, and certainly for the new movements. Simply for having delivered what has been asked of them in this respect for a long time (integrated chrono).
I also cannot say I am over the moon when it comes to the dials, or the date, yet I have not seen more than the press shots so far. And having talked to quite some of my friends who wear APs but have little interest in watches generally, the date / placement of it matters to them not at all.
All in all I see a danger that if the line doesn’t achieve commercial success then it will be extremely difficult for AP to move beyond the RO / ROO lines going forward. Which may be dangerous in the long run.
I feel they can be applauded for keeping the cases reasonably sized at 41mm, and certainly for the new movements. Simply for having delivered what has been asked of them in this respect for a long time (integrated chrono).
I also cannot say I am over the moon when it comes to the dials, or the date, yet I have not seen more than the press shots so far. And having talked to quite some of my friends who wear APs but have little interest in watches generally, the date / placement of it matters to them not at all.
All in all I see a danger that if the line doesn’t achieve commercial success then it will be extremely difficult for AP to move beyond the RO / ROO lines going forward. Which may be dangerous in the long run.
It may be that with time, more exposure, seeing them in the metal etc that these dials have something we don't see right now.
Also to me, the largest and most crucial knowledge gap that many of us on these forums have is the understanding of the average buyer for these brands. Purists won't make or break these watches.
Me? No. It's 41mm, too big for my wrist I would think.
But that's clearly not a factor for the broader watch buying public as every brand is telling us people want larger. Ummm, except Panerai who are being told by those people that they want smaller!!!
With the current dials as shown, no.
But if I could design my own chronograph dial? Absolutely! BTW, have you seen the Supersonnerie? I would take that as is, stunning.
Yes I have
Not to my taste, but a cool design exercise.
When it comes to RO chronographs my preference would be an old one. With the square indexes.
But those hexagon crown and pushers remain an ergonomic nightmare. Especially when one has Sasquatch hands/fingers...
When it comes to RO chronographs my preference would be an old one. With the square indexes.
But those hexagon crown and pushers remain an ergonomic nightmare. Especially when one has Sasquatch hands/fingers...
Certainly full agreement here, as you know :-)
We had a good thread recently on the 39mm ROC collection. How interesting to see AP offer 38mm this year. But still without a spectacular dial like the older ones.
Question...
Michael, has there ever been this much interaction with a single post in such a short period of time?
In my opinion...
I think most people only have issues with the dials, esp the chrono and time only dials, with their uncanny resemblance to "undesirable" brands such as DW or MVNT etc.. ( aka mall watches ). This can be easily fixed in future releases. The case for one appears to be elaborate and well furnished the new movements are good imho. One thing to note, the case is not weld at the bottom and there is actually a gap. Not sure how robust these watches are. Also 30m water resistance is kind of low.
Overall, I think the over-reaction and venom directed at AP so far for this new line is both overblown and unwarranted. So we should all wait to see the watches irl before making judgement,
Overall, I think the over-reaction and venom directed at AP so far for this new line is both overblown and unwarranted. So we should all wait to see the watches irl before making judgement,
Totally agree with your points. The dials are not specially exciting, but that can change, in the future. The case is not bad looking at all, I find the movements of the tourbillon and the
Chrono very nice looking...
Let's wait a bit and see...
Best,
Nicolas
I am with you, Ben. Lot's of over-reaction here, but this is common for modern internet forums.
Everyone has to get on record, many need to be the attention-getter and enjoy negativity. In the early days of thePuristS, most every name in this thread was not here, and the general spirit was very different. But, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone expresses themselves differently.
Specific to your opinions on the collection, I agree. I really like this case, but the dials do not excite me. I think the chronograph dial in particular is much too similar to older dials from AP. Opportunity lost to create a unique and spectacular dial befitting of the new case.
But in the future, with a better dial? I will absolutely buy one.
Specific to your opinions on the collection, I agree. I really like this case, but the dials do not excite me. I think the chronograph dial in particular is much too similar to older dials from AP. Opportunity lost to create a unique and spectacular dial befitting of the new case.
But in the future, with a better dial? I will absolutely buy one.
Oh dear
.....this is so so much worse in many respects than VC’s '56 moment' or PP's new 24.
Aesthetic opinions vary, and I have not seen these in the flesh……but one has to only look at a dial here and swallow back the bile. What are AP thinking? These have nothing going for them (polite cough - cheap and nasty - cough).
For me it’s all about the movements: I.e. what can I expect in a RO case soon…. Finally some kind of chrono!
but wait, what about reliabliity/timing etc? Unfortunately no information. Who knows. They seem to have taken some learnings from benchmarking Rolex 4130. I can see maybe some evidence of the Rolex reset approach…good but .... No info…
For most of us this is a more important announcement than any in the recent history fo AP and they buried it in the launch of a new range of utter detritus.
The case is an intriguing technical masterpiece, but not my taste.
My main worry is the lack of value in the movement finishing. It is just too perfunctory. This is JLC level - which is fine, but at JLC prices then please.
Velociphile
At least they have new calibres, unlike those other collections.
I agree that they missed an opportunity by burying this news in the launch of this collection, but perhaps they didn't want to rehash the fact that they waited this long to introduce a chronograph.
Design aside, which I think could become something cool, we have new calibres that will hopefully be available later in more popular models. In particular I think the finishing of the chrono (agree with your remarks above), for example, is a hint that they'll be able to scale production for rolling this out to steel ROCs eventually and not reserving it for this price segment.
Overall, I think the broad strokes of the design are nice, but this first generation misses in several details. Not just the date, but also the count of different typefaces used. I mean, why is the brand name is in a different type face on the dial and rear bezel? Like the date placement, this feels like an unforced error.
Just my thoughts.
Brandon
Design aside, which I think could become something cool, we have new calibres that will hopefully be available later in more popular models. In particular I think the finishing of the chrono (agree with your remarks above), for example, is a hint that they'll be able to scale production for rolling this out to steel ROCs eventually and not reserving it for this price segment.
Overall, I think the broad strokes of the design are nice, but this first generation misses in several details. Not just the date, but also the count of different typefaces used. I mean, why is the brand name is in a different type face on the dial and rear bezel? Like the date placement, this feels like an unforced error.
Just my thoughts.
Brandon
Thanks for your thoughts guys. Could you help me understand the finishing issues?
I see on hodinkee, the tourbillon finishing is good, right?
Sure!
Yes, to my eye the finishing on the Tourbillon is very good. While anglage is not the totality if finishing, it does give some idea of what’s going on. In this case I see nice anglage and corners. If course, this is an AP R&P movement and and is even signed “ARP.”
The finishing on the auto and chrono looks like extremely good machine finishing to me, again using anglage as a starting point, but also looking critically at the levers and springs which have crisp edges and straight graining. While it looks like a machine finish, I will say it looks really good and hopefully if/when we get this in a steel watch (prices accordingly) we will have a good value to consider.
For me at least, it’s not that I think the finishing is bad...I actually think it’s very well done. But I think in gold, when I consider the price and some other watches in that price range or just above, it leaves me wanting a bit more evidence of handwork, expecially since that’s a big part of AP’s legacy.
Helpful? These are just my thoughts.
Brandon
AP CEO to staff:
Everyone loves a simple 12-3-6-9 dial. Let's make a dress watch with lacquered dial and those arabics. But don't forget, it must be big diameter case, thick case, have no water resistance AND it must have a hole punched in the dial for a date, because I heard Georges Kern say to never make a watch without a date, but don't forget we can't disrupt our arabic indices, so put the dial aperture somewhere else, and don't forget, thick, thick, thick!
The CEO has seen sales increase a large amount over the last years, even when the industry as a whole struggled.
Their plans were that this line would be, at best, 20% of sales, which would take time to achieve. In spite of the cries of watch nerds, there is a lot potential here. So, no I don't think he'll be resigning.
Never credit the current incumbent with the achievements of those that preceded him [nt]
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