Audemars Piguet

There were some very interesting and difficult questions asked. Many of the questions are some of the boldest questions that could be asked that are in the back of the minds of many PuristS who are concerned about the purity and history of this highly revered company.

I would consider myself a fan of the Royal Oak. Originally, I was a bigger fan of the Royal Oak before they revamped the series a few years ago by putting a sapphire crystal back and lowering the price. However, that was 5+ years ago, and the latest offerings, especially the ROO Survivor watch and the latest motorsports watch are really revving my engines. Looking forward to seeing the new watch!

Thank you Philippe Merk of Audemars Piguet and ThomasM for this interview.

Hope to see an AP on your wrist some day!

TM

And very interesting reading about his thoughts on how AP weathered the storm during the financial crisis.

And very cool sneak peak at the AP Diving watch.  Can't wait to hear more details.

Thanks TM.

Regards,

ED-209

The US market for AP wasn't hit too bad for too long, and is well recovered year on year (kudos, AP NA!)

There are some markets that continue to lag, but they were not "top markets" even before the crisis.

So all in all, AP weathered the storm pretty well and is farther along in "recovery" (if recovery is even an appropriate word!) than most brands.

Cheers,

TM

Cannot wait to see the 40th anniversary RO. Hope it is a Jumbo LE.

JerryW

I have high hopes for the 40th!

Two things in the article that really got my blood pumping:

- a new AP diver;

- celebrating the 40th anniversary of the Royal Oak!

How EXCITING!  Thanks for the wonderful post, TM!  I enjoyed reading your interview very much!

Cheers,

Daos

2012 will be a pretty spectacular year, I suspect...

TM

Will AP make a truly special 40th anniversary Royal Oak or just engrave the caseback or dial to commemorate the occasion.
Thank you Dr. Mao for the interview of Mr. Merk.

the 40th Anniversary Royal Oak will be quite a bit more than that...

Thanks for your participation, BClair57!

TM

for posting......

interesting about the 40th anniversary......

but, as a comment, his response on the limited editions is not entirely convincing....

(however, AP is a company and wants to profit...
there is nothing wrong with that....)

cheers

what sort of comments on limited editions would be "entirely convincing?"

Completely seriously, without any irony or sarcasm, I am sincerely interested in the unspoken and underlying thoughts on the whole LE subject.

Obviously it is a topic resting on some very strong and deeply held "opinions"

Obviously I sense this, recognize this general "zeitgeist" else I would not have asked the question.

So apart from a general "feeling" that there are too many Limited Editions, I would sincerely love to understand the more substantive, rational underpinnings of the opinions on this subject.

Thanks in advance if you are willing to help me understand.

Cheers,

TM

although, I would like to clarify that my views are entirely subjective.....

Limited editions, in my view, should be exactly that....
a watch that is a limited number and is not manufactured again.....

Also a limited edition should be really much lower, in numbers manufactured, than the regular edition....

So far, I think that all agree with the above.....

Now, the subjective part...

I will use an example of a watch that I bought, from JLC....

About a year ago, I bought the rg version of the limited edition JLC Amvox 2 DBS....
The DBS edition was supposed to be a limited edition watch and this was supposed to be the only rg....

Apparently, and due, I suppose to the success of the model, JLC made more editions including another rg one...
certainly a bit different, but the same dna and characteristics nether the less.....

I since sold my rg edition and bought a different one- the DBS series is no longer, in my view, a limited edition but
a limited production.......
Don't get me wrong... I love this watch and regard this chrono as truly unique, but I feel that I was mislead....
I would have still bought this one, even if it wasn't a limited edition and probably would have kept the rg....
I consider it bad marketing..... (I can elaborate if you would like me to....)

Now for the AP, the limited editions are really, in my opinion, a regular production watch with different dials...
(I am referring of course to RO & ROO)
There is not much of a difference (apart from the dial of course)....

It is sort of choosing a different colour or options for a car.....

Now , in my opinion again, there is nothing wrong in doing so...

AP, as all other manufacturers are a company and exist to make money, not for charity....
Their policy is right and it is judged by the market...
If they did not sell they would not manufacture them....
Nothing wrong with this....
I just do not like the "limited edition" description....

What Mr Merk should have said, again in my opinion, is that those editions satisfy the existing market....
and AP is going to do so.....

So, to conclude, I have no objection on the different editions but I disagree on the "limited", using the car analogy again....

To further clarify, if I find a "limited edition" AP that I like, I would buy it should my economics permit me ...

I would be happy to elaborate further if you would like me too...



cheers

I really appreciate the effort to try to explicate the assumptions to someone who may not agree, but may not disagree either! but who is really interested in understanding the reasons behind.

The funny thing is, I have no problem with people simply saying, "I like this" or "I don't like this."

That's fine, and a statement of personal taste and opinion.

But when the comments specifically question the validity or "integrity" of a statement made in good faith (I assume) or marketing/business decisions thereof, I would expect a bit more than "I don't believe this" or "I have trouble swallowing that" as the challenge is deeper and more profound than simply differences of opinion and taste.

I wonder if the previous makes sense?

In a more general way, positive comments need no explanation; afterall, that is the assumption in a community of interested individuals.  Unless you are a heckler, the assumption is that participants at a bowling tournament actually likes bowling. (replace bowling with golf, wrestling, cars, watches, knives, guns, fishing reels, gucci slippers, whatever...)

Criticism, even the most sincere ones, reasonably warrant polite requests to understand through more clarification.

Are these so assumptions so hard to understand or unreasonable? (not directed at you, PP)

Anyway, thanks, Pink Panther, and I'll come back to your comments to read them again and again to try to understand the points made and their implications.

Chapeau,

TM

Just want to send a few messages to Mr. Merk.

1. The non-ROO/RO stocks at retailers here are not moving satisfactorily (at least in the eye of the retailers).

2.  Mr. Merk said: "There would be no secondary market if there would not be a strong primary market".   I am not sure whether he would agree with me that: "There would be no strong primary market if there would not be secondary market".

Regards

Ling

are lucid and succinct.

I certainly can't speak for Mr. Merk (though I believe he will see all these comments) but based on what I know of "street level" conditions worldwide,

"1. The non-ROO/RO stocks at retailers here are not moving satisfactorily (at least in the eye of the retailers)."

the non-ROO / RO models are obviously not as "hot sellers" as the RO and ROOS - this is a recognized fact for many decades now.

Most brands would KILL to have even one model that is as iconic and commercially successful as, first, the RO, then its progeny, the ROOS. This very success is what, I think, has skewed all discussions about AP model lines - the higher the mountain, the smaller appears the hills.

But such powerful and extreme "positions" are difficult, if not impossible, to "adjust for" in conversation....

"2.  Mr. Merk said: "There would be no secondary market if there would not be a strong primary market".   I am not sure whether he would agree with me that: "There would be no strong primary market if there would not be secondary market"."

Yet another excellent point.  I do strongly disagree with your play on the words in your counter, though - there is virtually no secondary market for Dufour; for Voutilainen. Yet the primary is indisputably very strong.

This subject is a very complex calculus, with many variables each with complicated relationships with the other variables - absolute market size, absolute production quantities, relativity between the two, image vs reality, image becoming reality, distortions like speculation, and how long those distortions take (if ever) to work their way through the market, etc etc etc

The Lamborghini Reventon is a perfect example - It was "sold out" immediately upon introduction.

90% of them have been "permanently on offer" ever since...

Consider all the "double and triple sealed" PP 5970, 5959, 5070, etc etc etc.

What is manipulation, what is speculative, what is "organic" and sustainable?

I recall even products as "common" as the Canon and Nikon "pro bodies" or, for a period of time, old Contax/Zeiss and Leica R lenses when it became known they can be adapted for manual use on Canon and Olympus digital mounts, being subject to price bubbles, speculation, flipping, and "strong secondary markets." Even now, where those "unnatural" secondary markets seem to have died down, the primary markets are still strong...

Interesting topic for its own thread, here on AP forum or on HoMe...

Cheers,

TM

last point is quite interesting and as you suggest a great new thread....

I would suggest, as it is your idea, to start it in HoMe....
It would generate a great conversation..



cheers

most likely will have to wait till next week.

Thanks,

TM

I agree and disagree to some of your points.

1.  ROO/RO is certainly the iconic model for AP.  Based on the past experience, AP pay too much attention in "promoting" ROO/RO, so do all the watch forums, with no exception.  At times, I wonder whether the brand has seriously taken the lead to "re-introduce" more AP models to the horology world.  My doubt is due to the fact that I hardly see any event held by AP to promote non-ROO/RO models here in this region.  Correct me if  am wrong.  On the contrary, I have seen many launches and events  for Limited Edition ROO models. More often than not, newbies has this to say: " I want to get a royal oak".  Why didn't the newbies say that they want to get a AP?

2. Mr. Merk's point and mine are intertwined. Thomas, there is secondary market (if you agree that is called market) for Dufour and Kari's pieces.  Of course, the number is very small.  On diverse dates, I have been offered pre-owned (sources unknown as it was done through a friend) Dufour and Kari pieces but turned them down for personal reason.

For all said and done, I would like to see AP being able to survive at the top of the pyramid of horology world, not anything lesser than that.

Regards

Ling

 

Limited time right now, but

"1.  ROO/RO is certainly the iconic model for AP.  Based on the past experience, AP pay too much attention in "promoting" ROO/RO, so do all the watch forums, with no exception.  At times, I wonder whether the brand has seriously taken the lead to "re-introduce" more AP models to the horology world.  My doubt is due to the fact that I hardly see any event held by AP to promote non-ROO/RO models here in this region.  Correct me if  am wrong.  On the contrary, I have seen many launches and events  for Limited Edition ROO models. More often than not, newbies has this to say: " I want to get a royal oak".  Why didn't the newbies say that they want to get a AP?"

 

All I can say is, how many times have I seen applause by those like yourself (and myself) whenever the subject of "more coverage of the other non-RO / ROOS models" comes up, and then nothing from those any more?

"so do all the watch forums,"

Um, Ling, I really don't know how to take this comment. The forums are as much about the PARTICIPANTS as the brand and/or the moderator.

So where are all the posts from the participants?

Where are the long threads when we announce the Jules Audemars new models or Millenary new models or...?

Or when Alec shows his Millenary Maserati? My THG LE Millenary? The various and rarely shown and thinly supported Edward Piguet posts?

It's easy to sit on the side and applaud the different and less popular (not a criticism, please don't take it as such!) and much harder to do something about it.

Notice I could easily show pictures of Ferrari; Lamborghini's are much rarer (absolutely, there are far fewer) and much more polarizing and most likely much less popular.  Yet I don't let that sway me from posting pictures of Lambo versus the much easier to find adoration Ferrari.

So come on, lovers of non-RO and non-ROOS AP's, show your pride and put your words where your words are!

TM

 

I agree, this is a problem "all brands wish they had."

But when they have it, it is a problem nonetheless!

I would parse the subject into two narrower categories, though -

1. secondary markets as limited to so called "NIB" (new in box) being sold, at, below, or above suggested retail prices

2. secondary markets as in high liquidity, high percentage of retained value, in used, pre-owned goods.

The two, though superficially related, and in fact are probably intimately related but in non-obvious and complex ways, have very different priorities and have very different implications!

Cheers,

TM

Well, I'm a bit deceived, as I hoped there was something revealed about a re introduction of the Starwheel...

Do you have a scoop to share with us, Thomas?



Best,

Nicolas

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

Any Dong in this army of dings?



Best,

Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-05-13 20:03:46

AP Starwheel?  Sometime in the near future?  Yipeeee!!!!

Regards,

ED-209

A great read, thanks for sharing.

.

making this a top notch interview. Thanks to you Dr. M and hats off to Mr. Merk for having the passion to share his watch with fellow collectors while traveling, there must be more stories in those encounters--hope to hear them at a dinner sometime ;0).
Best to all,
Tim