Comments:
Vintage GP - worth it?
Hey all. Back to the GP forum for me.
I seem to have caught the GP bug. While the Laureato hunt is almost over (I hope), I've spotted the following:
You think it might be a franken? Movement and dial looks legit; number is something like 03 E 458 (?), which makes it a calibre 03, 1950's. Lovely art deco indices. Hands might be wrong?
There seems to be several sellers with old GPs from South America. This one in particular sold some very nice-looking examples
Now they could also be cobbled together from various GP parts (in this case, I am wondering whether the colour of the hands differs from the indices a bit too much, and what's up with the 6??
On the other hand, even if they're frankens, the parts seem to be legit, they look damn good, and it's a matter of not overpaying? (we're not talking 50 bucks)
Really nice selection.
I really like the semplicità and the Art Deco style of the first one but my choice would be the second one. Amazing dial and hands. Do you know something more about it?
Best.
Best.
No idea, unfortunately
Was looking for previous trades to learn more about the seller. Multiple "GP from the 50s" sold strike me as somewhat suspicious, so I had a look at them.
There are a lot of offers from South American on various sites....
Many of the watches I suspect to be put together from old stock parts.
Some more colourful than others.
The three examples you show here are more classic in style than many others.
Personally I try to stay away because I prefer to be able to confirm a watch...
I.e. know of its existens, looks, etc. before buying.
Here it would be a leap of faith since there are so little documentation from this area/era.
Best
Blomman
+1 on what Blomman said
lots of South American made GPs around in that area, so difficult to judge, but also not possible to rule out that you find a genuine one among them.
I figured...
On the other hand, even if they're frankens, I think there's something almost noble about what that watchmaker does (not the seller though, as they're advertised as genuine). If I had the option to put together new models from original old parts, while keeping to the style and spirit of the era - why, I'd love to do that, kind of like giving a new life to things, or upcycling, if you prefer. This is not a purist approach at all. of course, and it would have to be clearly stated as such (which it's not...). But it's much better than buying a random new dress watch for that price, I feel... oh well, we'll see how the bidding goes, and after all I'm at the beginning of my journey. Mistakes can be made, especially if they're nice-looking=P
We all do mistakes... Its a part of the learning process.
That is why its great to learn from each other!
One advice I would give is to go for some more well-known models in the beginning.
That makes it easier to avoid many mistakes and to learn more before go into the unknown...
Best
Blomman
One advice I would give is to go for some more well-known models in the beginning.
That makes it easier to avoid many mistakes and to learn more before go into the unknown...
Best
Blomman
Buy if you like it and the price is right. Personally, I'd rather have more info confirming the watch, even if more expensive. [nt]
No message body
I get it...
Wonder if GP is the only major, respected brand with so little documentation? Omega etc are much better in that regard?
The problem is mostly wtih gold cases...
which were often made in the destination country to avoid tariffs and other import difficulties. Of course, the first one at the top should be plated with what appears to be a stainless steel back.
(It used to be easy to tell the modern remakes of the casebacks--the GP logo was laser-etched rather than stamped.)
Longines did not maintain detailed records for batches of watches made for import markets, particularly in America. They were recorded as a batch of serial numbers, sold to Longines-Wittnauer, without being too specific about what was on the dial or the intended case. Longines-Wittnauer put them in US-made cases, with numbering conventions used by the casemaker (and derivative of American pocket-watch cases--they were the same companies), so the reference has to be identified by the dial. They might have the information in their records, and they might not. I had this conversation while standing with one of their public-affairs executives while we were both in the archive library, which they keep in their heritage museum.
GP was no higher in the scheme of things in those days than was Longines, and maybe not quite as high. Their brand positions have rather reversed in recent years.
The high-end companies were a bit better about maintaining detailed information about each watch, but GP wasn't quite "high end" in those days.
I looked at old Gyromatics for several years before seeing one that was sufficiently unique (and verifiable) to be sure of the provenance. But it is not a chronometer model and those require close scrutiny.
On the other hand, in those days, a case was a case was a case. If one of those lovely old movement/dial combinations finds life in a later case, and that fact is reasonably disclosed, then I have no issue with it. I might have bought one like that in a later gold case with South American hallmarks, but the price was never right and the claims were too often devious.
--Rick
(It used to be easy to tell the modern remakes of the casebacks--the GP logo was laser-etched rather than stamped.)
Longines did not maintain detailed records for batches of watches made for import markets, particularly in America. They were recorded as a batch of serial numbers, sold to Longines-Wittnauer, without being too specific about what was on the dial or the intended case. Longines-Wittnauer put them in US-made cases, with numbering conventions used by the casemaker (and derivative of American pocket-watch cases--they were the same companies), so the reference has to be identified by the dial. They might have the information in their records, and they might not. I had this conversation while standing with one of their public-affairs executives while we were both in the archive library, which they keep in their heritage museum.
GP was no higher in the scheme of things in those days than was Longines, and maybe not quite as high. Their brand positions have rather reversed in recent years.
The high-end companies were a bit better about maintaining detailed information about each watch, but GP wasn't quite "high end" in those days.
I looked at old Gyromatics for several years before seeing one that was sufficiently unique (and verifiable) to be sure of the provenance. But it is not a chronometer model and those require close scrutiny.
On the other hand, in those days, a case was a case was a case. If one of those lovely old movement/dial combinations finds life in a later case, and that fact is reasonably disclosed, then I have no issue with it. I might have bought one like that in a later gold case with South American hallmarks, but the price was never right and the claims were too often devious.
--Rick
Unfortunately, I’m absolutely not able to talk about the legitimacy of these GP but I particularly love the last one with its very nice dial
Best wishes
Alkiro
Alkiro
Hard to say
I bought one off the seller some years ago with a period correct box, hang tag and Industria Argentina 18ct rose gold case, which was a common thing back in the day with import substitution industrialisation practices to support local industries and avoid tariffs. It had an enamel dial and applied logo and indicies, so I knew it was legit. These, I don't know. I suspect you won't find the dials in period GP catalogues from the 1950s, which raises red flags. As always on vintage watches, the dial makes the value as it's only original once.