Officine Panerai

We often see pics of the Pam 36 face, and it is logical, as this Pam is an absolute reference in the Vendome production.





But we never speak of its Dark Side, I mean the case back...

It is now time to show it!

For this watch, Panerai made the choice of a see through case back.



The funny thing is that this ETA movement is obviously inspired from the Rolex Cortebert we find in the 3646 and in some 6152...

Here, a Rolex Cortebert housed in a Pam 21 ( Credit pic: a Famous Auction House ):



The inpsiration is even more obvious when you look at some more Panerai releases, like the Cali, or the Pam 217.

Here, a pic to be credited to Konrad Knirim, if I'm not wrong, which perfectly sums the evolution and the clear original inspiration:



What is interesting with the Pam 36 movement is the level of finish.

Not really impressive, not too ugly, too.

Here are some pics of the ETA 6497/2 reworked by Panerai :







So, as you can see, we are far from a Lange Movement, indeed, but it is not uninteresting at all.

Rough anglages, yes, but with a certain appeal, when you don't consider it after viewing these macros, and what you loose in finsh, you gain in coherence, don't you think?

This is one of the very rare early Vendome watch coming with a see through case back.

Think about it, and you will see...

The Pam 21 was the first, the 36 was the 2d, among the Pre A, A and B series...( Pam 36 is B Series )

Even the twin sister Pam 40 had a solid case back.

This sapphire case back may even be considered as a witness of the History of the brand, at a moment where ( or when ) Reliability was more important than finish, or appearance, which is the first purpose of a Tool Watch.

Best,

Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-06 13:01:04 This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2009-04-11 08:11:18

The shape of the bridges, with the hard lines, and the "Panerai" engraving.  Very unique.  The new Carl F. Bucherer A1000 reminds me of it from a visual sense.

Like on the 127, for example, are even closer to the Rolex Cortebert look, but I share your point of view, Michael.

I appreciate these rough lines on the B series movement.

They are coherent with the spirit of the watch, indeed.

Thanks for your input, my friend.

Nicolas

As time has passed and better understanding of this movement's heritage is gained, makes me feel better about the complete historic linkage of the 127. Doubt this can be improved with one of the new Maniffatura movements.

Superb watch and I agree, lovely finishing.

Cheers!

It was interesting, IMO, to see the Pam 36 under this angle.

Some like the idea to see the movement thruogh the sapphire, others hate it.

The good thing is that this sapphire case back is like a witness of a past era...

Best,

Nicolas

If only the Panerai had the elegance of the Rolex swan-neck....

 

No message body

The 36 is a fantastic piece. Much nicer in person than one would think. And very collectible. Martin

A piece for any Panerai Hard Core Fan, indeed.

Sober, strong and fascinating with its brown dial and the tritium indexes.

Best, and thanks for your input.

Nicolas

learn a lot :0)
Can you just please clear for me once more
when you referring to PreA (this means pre Vendome aka Richmont, right?)
A and B - what this exactly means
Thank you for great pictures
Is this your new Laica on rampage :0)
Best
Damian
This message has been edited by Ares501 on 2009-04-07 03:08:19

Pre A is Vendome, because Panerai introduced the lettering since 98, with A.

So A is 98, B is 99 and so on.

Pre A is 97.

Not Pre Vendome.

BUT it is true that the Pre A ( Pam 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 21 ) take a lot from Pre Vendome.

We can even say that the 21 belonged to the Project Slytech, like the 36.

As for my new Leica, no, not on these pics...

The sad thing is that I stocked 14 reviews somewhere in my Computer, and that I lost 8 of them...

Best,

Nicolas

the quick responses
Ahhhh lost 8 reviews
Sad days, sad days :0(
Search didn't help?
Thnx for clarification
Best

I stocked them in my Email Box, and 8 of them disappeared...

Sad...

As I have to do the work, once again.

Best,

Unlucky Lucke   

This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-07 03:20:06

which were already projected and prototyped under Pre-Vendome (QUORUM Ltd) but executed by Vendome (initially (1997) the watch-cases were made by Quorum LTD – approx 500 units)

PAM 21 was part of the 'Progetto SLYTECH PANERAI', as well as 'Submersible' + 'Luminor Dual Time (GMT)' + 'Luminor Titanium' + 'Luminor & Luminor Marina in Gold'.  And the others models you listed in your post of which the Mare-Nostrum was slightly reworked (see bezel)

The ‘Progetto Slytech PANERAI’ had it all worked out, today turning out to be the mind of a magician, only none of it would have ever happened if for the gutsy take over and most of all expertise of the Vendome Group.

Wow, another great info, my friend.

We also forgto the famous ...Blackseal Slytech.

This is a very interesting topic which should require a dedicated post.

Are you in?

Best, Master.

Nicolas

The Progetto Slytech Panerai was drafted in 1995 but it was completed at the end of 1996, in reading it one could easily conclude that it was sort of prepared for those interested to the buy-over Officine Panerai in Firenze (watches & instruments department)

The Slytech Blackseal was not part of The ‘Progetto Slytech Panerai’.  This piece named ‘Blackseal’ otherwise known as 5218-218A was requested by Mr. Stallone in mid 1996.  Officine Panerai in Firenze instructed in Dec 1996 Quorum Ltd (then the new watch-case maker) to prototype 5 units (P 001 – P 005). Those prototypes were not completed before or at the time of the take-over by Vendome. However those pieces complete with their original boxes and matching libretto found their ways to aware buyers in late 1997-1999.  Strangely other 'Black Seal' made it to the surface in 2000 and a few more, those which for most can be identified,  they true fakes and of course have nothing to do with Officine Panerai in Firenze.

Actually based on others documents I have, I am reading that GIOIE (PANERAI DISTRIBUTORE PER l'ITALIA) till the take-over by the Vendome Group, were proposing to their agents and new agents the following pieces.

Documents dated 12/1996

Modelleria 1996		Prezzo al Publico
Submersible		L. 5.950.000
Daylight		L. 5.950.000
Blackseal S.E.		L. 6.700.000
Mare Nostrum		L. 6.450.000
Submersible S.E.		L. 6.350.000
Daylight S.E.		L. 6.900.000
Mare Nostrum D.M.		L. 6.950.00

 

So one could conclude that some of those 'Blackseal S.E.' were sold directly by Officine Panerai distributor after the take over by the Vendome Group.

This message has been edited by PoyFR on 2009-04-07 13:27:19

I  always thought that the Blackseal Sly was ordered  by Panerai ( Pre V ) to Quorum, and that Quorum delivered them in March '97, just after Vendome bought Panerai.

The other interesting thing is that all the " regular " Black Seal were numbered P 001 to P 005.

So, we can conclude that the BS which are not numbered this  way are fake, if I understood correctly the situation?

Best, and thanks!

Nicolas

on the case-back as follow: 'P 001' or 'P 002' or 'P 003' or 'P 004' or 'P 005' and no other numbers, it must be accompagnied by its matching manual/libretto. 

If there is no number on the case back then no possible doubt, it is simply a replica of some sorts, (to me) even if it is authenticated by whom ever, It is simply a FAKE.

Here's a pic of one YOU know, and I know, which is authentic...

 

Good old time... Best, nicolas Credit pic: Le petit Marseillais.

Is it not true Dino Zei never mentioned the making of this watch in his book? They were planning on making it but the question remains..Were they ever made? You guys talk about 5 pieces and I know the booklets were allready made but what about the watches? If the proto's as you stated were made they were never assembled and sold by the old Panerai..... Also if you look at the original drawings of the 218A you will see that panerai had come up with the one screw system (as seen on all vendome) and seen on the 209 and 210...The original drawings of all 3 show the one screw system and a close inspection of the 210 revealed the case is different then the PreV cases wich has thicker lugs (as seen on 201A with 2 screw sysytem)...The 210 case is actually an OP6500 case with 1 screw sysytem..Same case as seen on the OP6500 PreA series wich differ from the OP6502 PreA series...Therefore it is logical to assume vendome used the leftover cases wich were to be used for the slytech project to launch the first PreA series (OP6500)...When they ran out of these the OP6502 were made......That's what I believe...Any comments on that????

Best guillermo

 

Read my posts above, you will find all the answers… In short… I did not ever claim that those pieces were sold directly by Officine Panerai Firenze! Dino Zei’s book does not mention the 5218-218/A because the watches, those 5 units, were completed post the Vendome acquisition.

5218-209 & 5218-210 were drew after the 5218-218A, you may have the copy of the original drawing which were generously made available to all, but what you do not have is the date of all original drawings which is stamped and duly signed on all original! The 5218-209 & 5218-210 are stamped January 1997 whereas the 5218-218A drawing is stamped November 1996

So the 5218-218A was purely a replicated case of 5218-202A but instead of being made by Valgine of Switzerland it was made by Quorum Ltd of Italy.

Your good observation of OP6500 cases and the one screw system gives at times good guidance to differentiate the copies (fakes) of the 5218-218A

In your opinion which is not very humble...

The real Black Seal Slytechs have a one or two screw Strap securing system...

And what are your qualifications as the expert on these issues... You worked at Panerai SpA or just got some documents and you are now the authority...

Bill

Bill, you seem to be able to form and pass fast judgment on people you do not know, as well as making a public discussion some sort of a personal matter.  I profoundly dislike that.

I tell you what; not that it matters, but from now on I will not answer any of your questions, have a good weekend.

If you are the authority, then fine.... just let it be known why you are.

And then shed some light on this topic.

It is a very important topic to me.

I have never heard of you before and have been on these forums for a long time.

And calling something a fake certainly needs some qualifications. What constitutes a fake to you?

If you can't answer those questions, then I respect your comments as your opinion but not necessarily the truth.

Regards

Bill

Let me tell you that under this pseudo, POY is one of the 2 or 3 real Panerai Authorities.

You don't know him under this pseudo, and I don't feel authorized to give you his real name, but he's a very well known guy, and a TRUE Expert.

Of course, you have no obligation to trust in me.

Best,

Nicolas

I really don't.

I have been trying to get to some answers on this topic for a long time.

And I'm sure you can conclude why it is so important to me.

I will move this discussion to email.

Thanks

Bill

Please send me a PM and check that you accept to receive PM, which is not the case, for the moment...

We need to talk.

Best,

Nicolas