Officine Panerai

In your personal opinion, which is/are the most overrated models? For instance the 26K and 28L. Limited editions, both, coveted to a certain extent by many and the question in my mind remains....why? 

Cheers - Sergio

 

Because often times the overrated models are those that doesnt even fit my criteria.

I guess with Panerai there are many, but well, isn't the entire brand over-rated in some ways due to the fact that people rush over these watches that houses ETA movements( e.g. 127), and yet seem to praise them so much even though the truth is there are so many watches with high complications out there that truly gives respects to the haute horlogerie Gods. With respects to finishing and actual functional complications.

Just my take on this.

Stephen

as you are a huge fan of Lange and PAM...

best to you..happy holidays to you and your lovely fiance...

I just wrote what is true to my heart.

Have a happy holidays to you and your family as well!

I will be working till next week for this year, then my fiancee comes the week after!

I sure will be having a VERY merry christmas!

Tschuss

Stephen

and EVERY vintage Panerai

Now the vintage lover are gonne kill me

more about the vintage or semi vintage ( can't call a watch from 1992 a real vintage)

If a Panerai from 1993 was available for 1250 till 2000 euro at that time and today you need to pay 20 or 30 times more ???? That is something I call WAY overrated

I love the Patek 5070, if the price would be around 800.000 till 1.200.000 million in 2030, I will call it overrated too. Get my point ?

but you've got nothing to fear, from me....

Cheers - Sergio

i know it's Crazy and doesn't make a lot of Sense when it comes to pay X 1000s for a Pre-V  Panerai  (let alone the Vintage that Cost the same as a Brand New PORSCHE Carrera 4S.!

 it's us that Drive the Price way HIGH. it also has a lot to do with Supply & Demand.

for the same Price of the 203 can Buy you a Lange 31 .!!! and the Quality between these 2 Watches is HUGE.

also i can't explain why the 127,217 with a Simple UNITAS Cost as much as the 289 (Rose Gold with Complications) again , the Difference in Price doesn't make Sense to me.!

 Cheers

 

No message body

I think watches are so subjective there's not much sense to comprehend them.  Some people like certain watches, some people don't.  

No message body

and the finishing.  There are other intangibles which attribute to a model's value.  And these intangibles do not apply to other brands like Lange.

It's difficult to explain, but these intangibles are why there are many "overrated" Panerai's and why the parts of these Panerai's are far less in value than the sum of the whole.

Cheers,
Anthony

This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2010-12-09 21:08:03

Not to mention the obvious - it's all about supply and demand. I'm sure there are different degrees of perceived craziness when it comes to wristwatch pricing. It just comes down to the subjective views and value perception of individuals.

where you are trying to apply logic to the passion of collecting.

We all know that our passion for horology, history, rarity, beauty etc. is completely insane and a $250 G-shock can outperform all of the above mentioned watches. Why pay so much for a 5070 when you can get the same movement in a nice watch by VC for half price? These arguments are endless and futile.

I am sorry, but my heart beats faster when I strap on a Panerai vintage 6154 then when I strap on the Lange 31. Some of you may think it's sad, my wife would agree with you on that

 

Cheers and Passion,

 

Asi

Passion makes it all, here.

Over rated is a subjective thing, indeed.

Over rated compared to what?

To other over rated watches?



Best,

Nicolas.

PS: If there is any chance to get an authentic 6154, I trade my 5070 for it.

;-)))

A 5070 for a Panerai ???

 

They should have used something like this for the 414's back instead of the postcard 

 

 

 

 

LOLOLOL

A straught trade wouldn't be that stupid...

A Rolex Movement for a Lemania one...



Best, my friend.

Nicolas.

a human being.

To live out our passion is not as simple as doing what we please. That's just animal instinct. We have to be true to ourselves and have the courage to stand firm while others stare with disapproval. Also be open at the same time so that we aren't just being pure ignorant and insecure. Tough balance.

You manage well my friend. I hope we can meet in the not so distant future. I would love to listen to your journey on gathering your collection.

Best
Tyler

And no one has the " monopole " of the Truth, in this matter.

It depends on our own sensibility.

As, for example, the Small Egiziano, it was made in a very short batch, maybe only 30 pieces.

If you are lucky enough to fall on one, don't hesitate too long...

I was on this one, before a gentleman, and a true one, came and caught it before me.

I posted this story 2 years ago, it is an amazing one.

But this 6154 is just a piece of Art, the epitome of a Vintage Collection, while I would have less, muuuuch less issues to find a 5070, again.

And, as I said, a Rolex for a Lemania.. Why not?

Nothing is absurd, from one sense to another....

Food for thought...

Best,

Nicolas.

But to each his own.

My wife would disagree with you, but the key phrase here is, to each his own.

Lucky you to own some cool vintages.

Ciao

Stephen

No message body

and i think WE ALL Agreed with you in regards of WHAT WE LOVE TO WEAR .and  WHAT PUTS A BIG SMILE ON OUR FACE.  we all Share the Same Craziness otherwise we wouldn't be here.

 but the Main Question remains the Same:: what makes Certain Models more desirable that others which will ultimately overrate them.!.. i still think the Exclusivity and Rarity make'em Overrated.. it has nothing to do with the Quality of the Movements , the Finishing ,the Jewles neither the Precious Metals. and that's the way it is..

 ( BTW. i bought the 217 cause i LOVE it . i picked it over the 289 and my Girlfriend thinks i'm Nuts.)..

 

  ofcourse Cheers Love & Passion ;0))))))))

 Tony

 

 

just what makes the value of a watch? and what is value for money when comes to watches?

For me, it starts with the the buyer..the customer

there are many different types of customer, first the normal chap!, this customer has very little or no concern for history, depreciation, appreciation, the main criteria are brand awarness and what its aesthetics are. This could be anything from Tag to PATEK depending on how deep the pocket is. The customer wants a nice watch...maybe watches to go with their lifestyle, an S class with a day date, or e class with bimetal datejust etc

But here in these forums we have not this customer, but a different customer, not necessarily superior, we just look at watches differently.

Brand awarness is still a crucial factor, look at the traffic on forum for Rolex, patek and Panerai and compare with other brands.

What other factors play a role here?,

well, rarity, complexity, desirability (what others think of a certain piece), limited edition and value..mainly appreciation as well as history of the brand and movement.

if we assume it is a given that you need to like the aesthetics of the watch first, then the above factors start to influence demand.

so if you take for instance the 127..here you have a watch which is fairly rare in the world of the Panerai collectors , its not very complex however, but is a limited edition has already appreciated and most if not all desire it.

what this does is make it more beautiful......more desirable. the hunt for it is by many not few..and those who have it can command more. The 203 is more an extreme example because of only 150 pieces and that they were hand chosen for customers.

What others think about a watch is very crucial here, it fuels the need to acquire, you feel more safe in knowing that it is desirable. for evidence, just compare the price of a PP perpetual with that of a VC, is the VC really that inferior? Because you have a critical mass of collectors wanting a particular watch, be it a 5218 or pre A or a 36 or 40 its value is always going to be strong, and that demand can make that watch be value for money,

for instance if say a piece like the pam 36 is say 15K today and in 10 years, as the legion of panerai collectors grows it becomes rarer and more in demand, and goes for 60K it is today undervalued..or definately VFM. Ofcourse if the OP brand dies a death, it is overpriced...

But there is another level even above this.

The vintage collector...this collector has another key factor, they have a psychology of looking at the watch as a piece of art, a piece of history even if they do not overtly realise this

then you are no longer comparing to another watch, you are comparing to say a Van Gogh or a rare chinese vase from 10th century, or a rare book which sells for 17 million.

here logic is no longer applicable, you can not compare a vintage Panerai with say even a modern Patek 5070. The rationale for buying is different: one is a fantastic beautiful watch, the other has become a piece of art, a historical artefact.

so what is value for money? what makes a watch overpriced? depends which type of customer you are on the day..........

 

 

 

 

Panerai

Personally, when I think over-rated, I think Rolex, sorry.

The PAM203 and PAM127.  As a die hard Panerai fan, I can't believe the prices of these 2 models are so high.  I can understand why, but I can't believe the values haven't dropped back down and stayed there.  Yes they went down during the financial crisis last year but they've crept back up.

This entire topic is a good topic IMO.  It will promote some interesting discussion.  But to keep it brief, I personally think the 203 and 127 are "overvalued".  I wouldn't use the term "overrated" but am more comfortable saying "overvalued".

Cheers,
Anthony

 

One way to look at it is whether the high prices and popularity of a particular watch is based upon the watch having a timeless appeal vs. a sudden increase in popularity due to a watch being the current fashion.  I agree that it isn't a matter of whether one watch has more complications than another watch or a calculation of whether you are getting a good value for your money.  A watch can be great because of its design, complications or historical value.  For example, classic cars are much less sophisiticated than modern cars but there is something that makes it a classic and causes people to be passionate about it.  One test of whether a watch is overrated is whether you believe it will be worth as much in 10 or 20 years as it is worth today.  Is it something that will stand the test of time or is the popularity and price a trend that people will tire of?  In that sense, I think that the historical Panerai watches are classic watches but that re-editions of those watches may be somewhat overhyped. 

I'm reading something pertinent. Little I realized, when I posted this thread first, that I was going to upset the Gods of Panerai. The uneasiness with which this topic has been approaced, is really bizarre. The over-rating, I was referring to has nothing to do with prices, costs or valuation. In fact I did mention 2 models the 26K and the 28L that cost little or no money at all, in the great scheme of Panerai's things. Another model that I consider unbelievably over-rated is the BBQ 366, for instance. The fake and I mean FAKE patina alone it's embarassing. The Panerai's Grail "wannabe" looks are also embarassing (in my VERY personal opinion). You have the vintages, you have THE original models, that should be it. No re-editions which only cater to.....pure, unadulterated nostalgia! Why nostalgia? This brand has values and appeal, that considering the loyal following, are undubtable. Why the nostalgia? What is the point of producing a 28L??? That was my question, that was the curiosity I wanted to hear your PERSONAL opinions about. Not wether you would have bought a 203 instead of a Lange 31. I own 21 Panerai watches, only 3 of which I bought from AD. I've never bought a piece from a Boutique. Trust me, I have contrubuted to the concept of.....over paid....and I have no compuctions at all about it. If I decided, tomorrow, to buy a 203 (because I...have....the money for it) I wouldn't cry foul because and I wouldn't feel the 203 is over-rated, only overpriced). As ASI so aptly put it (but in my own words).....when I would strap the 203 on my wrist, I would probably develop an erection the size of.....Florida...

Sorry for the involuntary controversy  - Cheers - Sergio

BBQ 360.....

up to the 360 based on your definition !!

regarding re-edition, I can't say for now if I'm totally against it, or not because when I found a piece I fancy, the first thing that caught my attention is if it sings to me and then I'll dive in and research it further. So the re-edition part probably would be a show stopper for me later on if I'm really annal about it, maybe not I don't know.

So which models are re-editions? 341? 29? 21? sounds like a lot of hype I read recently? if so you proved your statement.

Mech.
This message has been edited by Mech on 2010-12-11 16:44:36