F.P. Journe

I love the brand and the watches. I think his watches has already proved how meticulous and impeccable Journe is about his work. Recently I visited an AD and tried on few pieces to see how they look. I am even more impressed now.

I am also a big Patek fan and I am looking into getting a nice complicated watch.

As much as I love the Souveraine Tourbillon Dead Seconds, I must say I am more impressed with the Resonance and its history behind. The ADs and many websites reflect the resonance as a  "two time zone" watch, but to my opinion the beauty of the resonance is to have the same time in both indicators and enjoy the perfection of it. I guess you can use it as a "two time zone" but you might as well get a Master Banker for a cheaper price and you would have not only 2 but 3 time zones

At this point I am torn between a Journe and a Patek. If I go with Patek, it will be 5960 P which I am also in love with. 5960 has a much higher market value than its list price today and the rumors say it will be discontinued soon. Resonance is cheaper and Souveraine Tourbillon is a little more expensive than the 5960 on the market(the list is much higher on the tourbillon).

I like to have watches which keep their value, not because I want to resell them. It just gives me pleasure to have something that is getting more valuable everyday, just like everyone else.

I heard from one of my watch sellers that Journe's pre-owned values has been lower recently. Now, what would you do? Do you think the F.P.Journe will keep its value like a Patek? Would you go with Patek or a Journe? If yes to the Journe, Resonance or Tourbillon? (Please consider the preowned value on your comments)

Thank you for sharing. 

As an owner of both the brands you've mentioned, I don't spend too much time deciding on the value of the pieces. Sure, it'll be nice, but it's not the be all and end all of watch ownership. Real value to me, is how it makes me feel when I wear it, but then again, I'm known among my peers for banging a Patek on a table or knocking it on a chair and not flinching. I wear my FP Journe Chronometre Souverain almost daily, and I'm just not fussed about whether it'll go up in value or not. They are all special to me.

Also, of the watches you've mentioned, they are all vastly different in terms of appearance, and function. If the different watches were more similar, say, all chronos, all tourbillons, all dual time etc etc etc then we can make some better comparative sense.

At the risk of offending the Patek-ites out there, I believe the following to be true:

- FP Journe watches are made by one watchmaker, from start to finish, in an elegant factory in the heart of the Geneva itself / Pateks are assembled in their beautiful factory in the Geneva outskirts

- One can still manage to meet with the founder of FP Journe and enjoy a close relationship with the company itself.

- Customer service is second to none at FP Journe

- I believe the finishing of FP Journes to have just that little bit more sparkle than Patek

It also sounds like your AD is charging you a premium for the Patek (which carries a long waiting list for the 5960P) and that is not right.

And, if you'd like to check on prices, then www.antiquorum.com is a good place to start to see how past auction results have shown up.

Finally: FP Journe has been around for less than a decade and are producing only around 900 watches a year. Patek have been around, what, 150+??, the time to develop and refine an image and reputation. I believe with Journe, you could be taking part in horological history as it unfolds.

If this doesn't satisfy your curiousity, then go buy whatever the AD tells you to, I'm sure he knows best.

To begin with, thank you for your kind response.

I totally agree that the comparison should be among the same category of watches, but I am starting the road by comparing the three watches that I am interested in, right now.
This is why I am comparing them. As you can tell, I am not looking for a "Tourbillon" or a specific "resonance" watch, so I can compare the two.
I also agree with you about everything you mentioned about Journe. Great respect to the brand.
However, although I truly don't want to compare it, I hope no one takes any offense and I also hope it never happens, Years ago Franck Muller was named the Only Master watch maker alive. It was beyond impossible to get a specific Frank Muller, you could only get what you could find and IF you could find one. It was the exact same story, "very small production".
Today, I own few of them and I am not enjoying them at all. They are everywhere.

I also agree with you on "whatever makes you feel better".

I really adore the Journe watches, I also want to purchase one. I just don't want what happened to FM to happen to Journe.
Patek, as a known fact will keep its rare availability.

I guess I have to sleep on it.

Thanks

Keeping the value or not?
Watches don't have to be considered like that, and you gave a perfect examle with FM...
You bought some FM because you were told that he was the only Gran Master still alive, because FM watches were hard to get, because you thought that they keep their value, orr simply because you love them?
Journe or Patek?
Or FM?
That's exactly the smae problem...Why do you want ot get a Patek or a Journe?
The only good answer, IMHO, is because you're in love with...
More in love with the Patek or the Journe?
That's the important thing, and the only important thing.Keeping the value is important, it's true, but you never know...
Imagine Patek stops the 5960 to launch an even much nicer Chrono..Will the 5960 keep its value?
No one knows...
If the 5060 sings loudly to you, so go on it.
If the Journe sings even louder, you know what you have to do!
Listen to your heart,and only to it.
Juts my 2 valuable cents! LOL
Best.
Nicolas

In all honesty I got the FM because of all the variables you listed; the master, the rare availability and of course the very different design(at the time). I was in love with them.
And look what it turned out to right now.
You know what it is?!
I feel the fear of thinking of having a rare piece and same thing happening to Journe, two years from now.

As you said, no one knows.
One thing for sure Patek will always be rare, which makes you feel good.

The most important thing is to really be in love with the piece you plan to buy...
I agree with you, a classic watch will last longer in terms of love than another, let's say, more ...exotic! LOL
Your answer is very honest...I'm impressed!
Best!
Nicolas.

somewhat like trying to market time your stock investments.

While my 5070G has skyrocketed in value, I honestly get more pleasure wearing my Resonance which hasn't gone up near as much in monetary value BUT the "two" dials, the shaped hands, the movement....ahhhhhhh

Go with your heart otherwise if you're like me....in 6 months you sell it and chase something else.

$.02

Chris H

Look at this piece! Piece of art!
I totally agree with you on the pleasure!
Enjoy!

First of all, welcome to the forum and the fun and wacky world of Journe.  I won't comment on the "value" of the two watches because price discussions are not inappropriate for this forum.  I'm sure you would very much enjoy both watches from a horological perspective and good  luck with your hunt.

[RANT WARNING]

This is not directly in response to the original post but as a general matter I would be curious to hear what watch collectors think of the ever-growing emphasis on resale values, flipping watches, speculation, etc.  Personally, this trend (and resulting change in the actions and focus of many collectors and the business practices of dealers and the watchmakers themselves) is why this hobby is no longer much fun for me.   More and more posts seem to be about what models are being discontinued, auction results and those sorts of issues.   Beyond the usual arguments of "these things cost a lot of money", I am curious to hear the opinions of other old-timers on these changes. 

Thank you for your comment.

I think you might have missed it but I just want to mention it again for no misunderstandings. On my story, I specifically mentioned, the value is important but not because I will resell anything, it just makes me feel better about my choice.
But what I do consider, maybe it is not the people who brought up these considerations today and maybe it is the watch makers who turned the market this way.

Anyway, I hope I did not interrupt the forum.

...the whole "monster", if you want to call it that, that has arisen in the watch world is certainly not entirely due to a change in the attitude of the collectors but also due to the marketing machine and business practices of the brands and their dealers. 

For example, I love Pateks but the collector speculation and rampant exploitation by many dealers just takes the fun out of it.  To put it another way, while I would love to see the technical and horological advances that Patek's anticipated new chrono may feature, I also know that speculators and dealers will simply drive up the piece to ridiculous levels and demand.  No matter how much I may love the new watch, I just refuse to play that game because a hobby is supposed to be fun.  On Patek itself, the fact that I would have to be "approved" to buy certain watches just makes me laugh.  When one visits a bespoke tailor that has been making handmade suits for royalty and such for centuries one never have to be "approved".  Just craftsman plying their trade.

Finally, as noted my original post was not really intended at you per se, but just at the "state of affairs" in general.  Personally, I would go for the Journe because the Patek, while it is a fine watch, just represents the nutty state of affairs in the watch world.  Even if I dump all my watches and take my time and money elsewhere I personally would still keep a couple of my Journes because I love their eccentric, Gallic charm.

 

- Daniel

...just saw the JLC Gyrotourbillon II. 

 

- Daniel