ThomasM
[PuristS]
14331
A discussion about "reliability"
Hi,
Can we have a considered discussion about "reliability?"
The subject comes up on a regular basis, both here about cars, and also about watches. Usually in shorthand. Most recently it came up in a sub-thread within the larger topic of exotic car ownership, with some salient comments made by g99 and Bimbeano and BDLJ.
First, can we have a definition of "reliability?"
To my mind, the word means something "works the way it was designed to work, consistently and dependably," within a generally accepted "useful life" which is measured in both continuous time and operating hours.
Already I can see some hand waving and divergence of operating definitions...
Some overarching general topics I hope we can address (even if only a cursory address) are -
"exotic cars" (not necessary "supercars") tend to be less reliable than less exotic cars
"Supercars" tend to be less reliable, in normal daily "street" use than non-supercars
ceteris paribus, of course.
I'd also hope we can touch on ideas like
small run productions usually get less development work done on them, and through their market lifecycles
exotic solutions tend to be less "tested" and debugged
inherent engineering reliability
reliability as a result (or victim) of production or execution of the raw engineering concept
more stressed designs (and executions) are less reliable than less stressed designs (and executions) ceteris paribus
Can development and refinement offset stress related reduced reliability? What about production tolerances? Operating tolerances? Materials and manufacturing processes?
eg, Maserati engines vs Ferrari engines on which they are based
the 456 V12 vs the 550 and 575 Maranello engines
The Metzer engine as it evolved and grew in displacement; the Bizzarrini Lambo engine, et al...
Curious what others have to say about these and other ideas related to "reliability."
Bimb? BDLJ? G99?
A discussion about "reliability"
Hi, Can we have a considered discussion about "reliability?" The subject comes up on a regular basis, both here about cars, and also about watches. Usually in shorthand. Most recently it came up in a sub-thread within the larger topic of exotic car owners...
Thomas, i have no knowledge of supercars, just a general knowledge of cars.
so i dont feel i am competant to participate in this thread. my comment on the other thread was a common sense view about all cars. if they are not used for protracted periods the oils drain from essential parts such as bearings, piston bores, any metal o...
You raise a very good point.
Engines are engines. And all cars have a redline. Redlines used to be set to avoid the first major mechanical complication that arrives due to high rpm - valve float and the possibility of pistons kissing valve heads. Perhaps some cars have them set lower...
thats exactly what i thought...
thats exactly what i thought apart from the latin bit. On 6 Mar 2013 12:48, "www watchprosite" *Alert from:* www:watchprosite > *Posted By:* BDLJ (registered) on March 6th, 2013 - 04:48 > > *Title: You raise a very good point. > * > > *
Reliability
...I hadn't seen this thread, so a Cut'n'Paste job from the earlier thread. I think it's reasonable to make a distinction between high and low volume manufacturers. When a high volume manufactuer makes a new car they will build a number of test properties...
Faith; Expectations; Pop Wisdom; and Counter-intuition
Hi, Ben, I'm glad this is turning into a real discussion rather than just some short "toss offs" on what I see is a perennial subject with far reaching import but usually with too superficial treatment, reinforcing unexamined assumptions and leaving confl...
i can see your point...
i can see your point on driving high performance designed cars at lower speeds could cause overheating and subsequent damage. if the airflow isnt sufficient for the engine to run at the correct operating temp then its better to drive it faster to ensure c...
There's too much...
..in there to respond to without a huge essay... I think I addressed 'inherent reason' issue with my "IFs" but you raise a good point concerning intended use vs. unpredictability of actual use. I guess it all comes down to what one means by "engineered pr...
very good point on the...
very good point on the 2 stroke Ben which also explains that when the yamaha 350 and 500cc 2 strokes came onto the market for road use they were considered unreliable because the expectation of the customer was higher than the expectation of the race engi...
I go with BDLJ and add ...
.. the fact is that a supercar can and WILL be driven more to the limits than your average VW ... this means there is more chance on breakdowns ... . Also most people buying fast and expensive cars think they can rev the nuts out off a cold engine , i hav...
dollars and personal expectations are...
dollars and personal expectations are an interesting point. when i still rode bikes the bmw boxer engine was reknowned for being really reliable, but my experience of ownership and several friends experience prove they werent. the reason is this. at the t...
If I want reliable..
I'd buy a Toyota. Ooops, I own three Toyotas, the oldest being a '97 LandCruiser, and the newest, a 2007 FJ Cruiser. All three Toyotas have been, lock, stock and barrel, troublefree. It has been years since any of the Toyotas has been to an AD. Instead, s...
i'd love to try an...
i'd love to try an FJ Cruiser, but they only come into UK as an overpriced. imported left hooker. they look really funky, are they good off roaders like a landrover defender? On 6 Mar 2013 13:58, "www watchprosite" *Alert from:* www:watchprosite > *Posted...
LR vs. FJ
I've never driven a Land Rover, but I think the FJ is nearly as capable off road as my stock '97 Land Cruiser. It really excels on twisty, hilly, snowy unpaved roads. It climbs them like a billy goat, whereas, the LC lumbers over everything. In the US, I ...
thanks, might test an import....
thanks, might test an import. G On 6 Mar 2013 15:00, "www watchprosite" *Alert from:* www:watchprosite > *Posted By:* senort75 (registered) on March 6th, 2013 - 07:00 > > *Title: LR vs. FJ > * > > *
Vibrations, high revs engines,...
... in my mind, the higher an engines works, the less reliable it is. Take it from F1 cars that revs around 14'000, but have a very short life expectancy, down to a simple diesel engine that can run a million km. Ferrari's Lambo's have high rev's engines,...
"Reliability" is in the eye of the beholder
My gainful employment for 20 years was publishing information FROM the auto manufacturers TO the aftermarket repair industry in North America and Europe. Then I changed sides and worked 10 years on the "generating the original data" end. I've seen my shar...
very interesting reading young man....
very interesting reading young man. i know what you mean about Honda and landrover reliability. i owned a 2.4ivtec Accord auto tourer, 2003 model and under 4 years old when the steering rack started leaking oil. it wasc so unheard of that i couldnt get a ...
Great post, cazalea.
Glas you brought along the bathtub curve. The Found On Roadside Dead or walk home failure is a interesting one. If dealt with swiftly and efficiently, it can mean no more than a long forgotten afternoon's annoyance. As compared to the niggling, intermitte...
I can think of a recent example
My Jag was given to me by an elderly friend who could no longer drive. I knew it had a 2 year old Interstate battery and despite that, would die within 7-10 days of not driving. Well, it's a Jag, right? I got a trickle charger and that sort of solved the ...
Ha! I had similar issues with a former Alfa.
It'd become a real pain to start after a few days. I did the same as you, checked the battery (even got the hydrometer out - and put holes in my t-shirt...), stuck it on the trickle charger, checked alternator output at various revs... Bit the bullet, bou...
i had a mark 1...
i had a mark 1 ford escort which was pretty old. i swapped it for a pair of shoes if i remember. it drove well when it started, but it refused to start before 11am. you could jump it, push it, kick it, hit it was a lump hammer, but it wouldnt start. go ba...
Some data from JD Power Surveys
JD Power is a company that does surveys about new and used vehicles. They prefer the term Initial Quality - things go wrong, or things that are hard to figure out or operate Dependability - complaints over 3 years about things not being right and "the car...
"Things that go right"...
What a great index! Have we got off on the wrong foot when considering the word 'reliability', as Thomas began? Are we defining 'reliable' by repeated reference to what is 'unreliable'? It's a bit like the old joke: a pessimist sees a glass half empty; an...
industrial and production engineering...
One popular school, especially as it applies to this discussion: Last part out Nice to read you here, pplater.
Some UK reliability data
Manufacturer rating A good car An ok car A troublesome car Oh my. ...
some surprising results there. especially...
some surprising results there. especially the legacy languishing down in 50 something. not really surprised by the fiesta as they tend to go and go. not that i would buy one. On 7 Mar 2013 04:04, "www watchprosite" *Alert from:* www:watchprosite > *Posted...
Amusing (un)reliability of cars in Calif
When I saw a power cord running out to the neighbor's "new" Rolls-Royce surf-mobile, I knew the PuristS had to enjoy this image with me ...
Great pic, funny thing is, is that a (un) reliability issue inherent in the electrical
system of the RR (design or execution) or a result of how SoCal owners use such vehicles? (looks like it might be a daily but then maybe not...) Old joke about the reliability of British electical systems - Why do the British drink warm beer? Cheers, TM
He drives it everyday; also has a older black 911 with surf racks on
I don't know him but am amused by his cars and his teen-aged daughter's green and purple hair. Cazalea
hey Thomas, dont knock it....
hey Thomas, dont knock it. warm beer is what kept us alive for hundreds of years before we discovered water purification :) and of course, without us there would probably be far less caucasians spread throughout the world. a good thing or a bad thing? bes...
mmmm...warm beer...
the funny thing is, I had warm beer in Hailar, Inner Mongolia, where it was -20C. hmmm...
