Automotive - Excellent commentary, Don, and coming from someone I know who can...

Excellent commentary, Don, and coming from someone I know who can...

drive well (ah, those fun days in Las Vegas and the karting session! Thanks, Chopard!) much appreciated.

"Elise - the driver is not only in control, but does the controlling in detail.
Maserati - the driver directs, but lets the automation in the vehicle do the work of controlling the car."

"Of course Elise is more work to drive (and I know that I have built muscles in my arms and shoulders curving through the mountains) but there is satisfaction in having direct contact and being able to directly influence the world."

"In both my directions to the car and the cars response to me there is a layer of automation between me and the "real world". I can hardly do anything myself. I have no control. It shifts for me when it wants. The car lurches when braking hard. It wallows over expansion joints. The wipers and lights are turned on and off by unseen gremlins. The car is more than 2 seconds faster to 100kmh, but I would never have guessed it. Anxiously wanting to run? No way, despite all the horses under the hood. Despite the wonderful sound the motor makes, fun is something else."

All great comments, but this, to me, is most telling of all -

"The way I see it is that the direct contact with and response from the real world makes the difference. It may be a problem of our time, the insurance salesman's dream for always more protection, always more distance from reality. Kids watch other kids playing on television instead of going out and playing themselves (in reality they might fall and take a scrape)".

Thanks, Don.

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the "feel" of a car...

By: ThomasM : November 22nd, 2012-21:38

One of the most consistent recurring themes in the follow up discussions to my recent spate of Quick Looks click here for blog links to individual quick looks at: Bugatti Veyron; Ferrari FF; Porsche 991; Chevy Corvette 427 CE; Bentley GT V8; Audi S8: Clic...

i think i preferred cars from the 80's and 90's

By: G99 : November 23rd, 2012-11:52

They had less or even no driver aids so you drove using the feel through the seat of your pants. Modern power steering is often too light so you lose the feel of what the front wheels are doing and suspension with adjustable settings often means there is ...

You hands and assometer...

By: ThomasM : November 24th, 2012-14:38

Hi, Graham, Interesting observation you made, one that is not obvious - the more driver seat "adjustadable" (maybe "selectable" is a more apt term?) suspension settings a car has, the likelihood the more "dead" and artificial the "feel" of the car. hmmm.....

I may be a radical example...

By: DonCorson : November 23rd, 2012-13:27

and I have never driven any of the cars in your list of quick looks, but from my probably very unusual perspective: Outside of the usual "means of transport" that I have to drive from time to time, the only cars I have driven recently are the Lotus Elise ...

Excellent commentary, Don, and coming from someone I know who can...

By: ThomasM : November 24th, 2012-14:44

drive well (ah, those fun days in Las Vegas and the karting session! Thanks, Chopard!) much appreciated. "Elise - the driver is not only in control, but does the controlling in detail. Maserati - the driver directs, but lets the automation in the vehicle ...

Easy.

By: BDLJ : November 23rd, 2012-14:07

The most enjoyable car I've driven in the last 6 months was a '34 MG. No synchro, tiny clutch travel, Very direct steering, cable brakes, cammy engine, super skinny tyres on lovely wire wheels.... just braking and dropping a gear required finesse...so muc...

No synchro? Now that's hardcore... [nt]

By: ThomasM : November 25th, 2012-01:31

Simplify and add lightness

By: cazalea : November 24th, 2012-11:51

Thomas, I think optimum "feel" does involve some filtering by the engineers and good mechanical condition of the specific vehicle you are driving, but also as stated by the other posters, a minimum of weight and a maximum of connection between the driver ...

Some very interesting points, Cazalea, with some revealing comments.

By: ThomasM : November 25th, 2012-01:39

Hi, Mike, To a certain extent, it is about preferences, which of course has a lot to do with what we cut our teeth on. Two frequently repeated statements say as much - "I seem to keep getting cars that were, or similar to, the cars of my youth." "My girlf...

'Feel' ....

By: bimbeano : November 25th, 2012-12:54

Last year i could try an Elise like Don's ... me and a friend just had a blast in the Clio Rs and a minute later i could take the steering wheel of his Elise ... The first minutes were difficult .... very very difficult, no powersteering made me realize m...

Most frightening drive of my...

By: G99 : November 25th, 2012-13:20

Most frightening drive of my life was probably being your passenger on that bend when the wheel met the wheel arch. I think i would have more fun in mr b's vintage mini than in any car that i would actually buy to live with on a daily basis. Stripped out,...

Why I will always be fan of the 50s and 60s Euro cars

By: mrsnak : November 26th, 2012-18:47

...and I say this as I have torn down the motor on my Renault Caravelle and completely going through the rear end suspension. Just love the tactile experience with being able to tweak and modify these simple mechanicals to perform better.

Absolutely, snak.

By: BDLJ : November 27th, 2012-00:08

I replaced the upper control arms on my erstwhile Giulia to convert it to positive camber...which got wound up for track days and hill-climbs. Plus adding an LSD off a 2000...polyurethane bushes....reinforcing the rear trailing arms...fiddling with roll b...

One query Ben...

By: dreamer8 : November 27th, 2012-18:56

why positive camber ? I thought a bit more negative camber would suit the track better to give a bigger contact tyre contact patch on bitumen when car corners at speed. Having said that I am totally against the insane over 1.5 degree ( 1 degree negative i...

I'm looking forward to Ben's response, Dreamer. I had a chance to drive

By: ThomasM : November 27th, 2012-20:53

"a track mod'ed" S2000 recently. It drove like a dream, up to the limit - very well planted, balanced. But it lost traction at much lower speeds, and felt light at the limits, than I would have expected given how it handled just below those limits, as wel...

Simple.

By: BDLJ : November 28th, 2012-01:48

I typed it wrong. And the screen on my phone meant my proof reading went awry. :-) Should have read 'convert *from* positive camber'. I used to run about 1.5 on the road. And more on the track. These were 185/65 tyres, the high profile could take it. Not ...

Thanks ....

By: dreamer8 : November 28th, 2012-02:32

for clarifying. You are right , the amount of negative camber can be greater for higher aspect ratio tyres ( more rounded shoulders ). Interesting information about auto unions having positive camber to balance out oversteer from rear. The notorious rear ...

Positive/Negative

By: BDLJ : November 28th, 2012-03:27

Other old open wheelers did it, too. Next time you see one, have a look at how upright or splayed the fronts are. I should have added that the Alfa standard camber was something like +0.5 which sounds wrong, but was probably a consequence of eve. narrower...

Older cars

By: 41northpole : November 28th, 2012-03:56

Getting on a bit now, so my dream garage pretty much all comes from the 70's :-) I am lucky enough to have a Giulia GTV 2000 from 1972. No gizmos of any description and just so wonderful to drive. The greatest thing about older cars is the lack of extreme...