Ares501 - Mr Green
27144
Hi Ken!
I've been reading through this thread cos I care about G-P and love it.
Also I remember posts from years back about this piece of yours that I see you still love.
Now please allow me my take on this "case"...but first I will cite Melvyn ..."You are correct and observed well with a scientist's eye."
If we apply scientific approach I would say following.
Yes the movement 32A in your piece was at Observatory and got certificate but Chronometer certificate as all batch G-P sent got.
Now here I see catch some of them were superlative Chronometers assembled and tuned to perfection and just some of them got Observatory Chronometer certificate.
So if there is no record neither in G-P or in Observatory that that particular movement 32A under his caliber number got Observatory and not just "plain" Chronometer certificate in that case G-P had no right to stamp Observatory on dial if such record exist then there is no doubt....guided by logic that I can read out every 32A Chronometer can be stamped Observatory but sadly that just isn't case.
Hope you are doing well.
Cheers
D
Throwback Thursday – 1967: Girard-Perregaux Observatory Chronometer B-2153
I am back! After a well needed family vacation in the sun I am back home. This Thursday I would like to throw you back to the 1967… We all know what happen that year at the Neuchatel Observatory in Switzerland. Girard-Perregaux dominated and was awarded t...
Pandora Box...!
Thank you, RG - that reminds me I should post some other boxes over at the JLC forum...! Best Blomman
My pleasure, dear Alkiro!
You know me, always something hidden for a rainy day...! Best Blomman
Rainy, cloudy, snowy, windy and so on 😁
In fact, a treasure for everyday and even more 😉 Best wishes Alkiro
What an entry to come back with!
the Holy Grail of vintage GPs. Just amazing. Let's hope that one day we will find a good reliable source that can give affirmative details on the "Observatory Chronometers". And AHH that box... Best and glad to have you back my friend. CC
How to make an entrance....! ;)
Indeed, let hope we one day can uncover all the details about the Observatory Chronometers! Best, my friend Blomman
That's a good question / observation, Frank
perhaps someone did not have the respect to stand behind his or her previous comments. But then, it's all about the original post by Blomman of a superb original watch and quality write-up.
You are not just back but you are b-a-a-c-k!!!
Amazing full set of one of cult and very very rare vintage pieces from G-P....what I gathered only 40 to max 60 movements got Observatory certificate and their movement numbers can be found in Neuchatel Observatory records! See the color of the inside of ...
As I told you, GP had a Green period! :)
Thank you, my friend! As you say, cult, rare... Many wants to be... But only few made it... Best Blomman
I agree the result is achieving the status of Chronometer
Besides that, the dial was changed with that statement Observatory Chronometer. GP did it and filled that official report 😎
That’s what I meant to say
GP has aslo manufactured a new dial to fit your watch with the Observatory Chronometer sign. I know vintage purists love patina dials, but for me a rusty dial is just... rusty, or damaged 😜 I appreciate more a perfectly restored watch, but that is me
I guess.....
.....once you start messing around with original dials with refinishing and refurbishing with details that may or may not have been original, one should expect exactly this type of discussion to develop where originality and authenticity are questioned. T...
A philosophy of how to collect vintage
Some have no interest in whether a vintage watch is authentic and original whilst to others it matters a lot. That isn't just vintage Rolex, it applies across the whole vintage genre...Omega, JLC, Patek whatever. The philosophy refers to how one views col...
Pardon, but where did i mention you or any other watch collectors?
I used the word RUSTY because that's how I see some vintage dials. I have long discussions with vintage friends But that's me, no offense intended 🌝 I agree there are 2 main groups of vintage collectors, those who let the watch untouched and unserviced, t...
Sorry just to clarify your point if GP wrote it then it must be ok?
Is that your take on this piccolo? Cheers D
Yes.
I never take anything for granted. in a rating system chart, I'd put GP at the top of it To whom shall I believe? 🤔
Kind of response that Phytia would give :)
Yes you trust GP or Yes you never take anything for granted. To whom shall you believe? To your own eyes....yes I understand I have naturalistic point of view...but on other hand do you have any piece of evidence to trust GP? Cheers D
Indeed, a original one in bad condition is not more than a few hunderd dollars. A repainted is even less...
But that is only interesting if you are about to sell your watch. If only to keep, wear and enjoy your watch... Then of course you should do whatever you like best!
ahhhh.... i realise now that i stepped on a mine.....
I see now....this is a watch that you bought in a ruined state and you had it fully refurbished so that it "looked" like it was back to an original state. And you were not looking to see its value increase....right......... Good idea Ken......good idea no...
Guys, there is no blame game here!
Ken, you asked for opinion about your watch. You got opinions, some you like, some you like less. No point in starting any blame or personal attack here. It doesn't matter if your watch is a Observatory Chronometer or not... Since your watch is not in ori...
You sold the watch and had to refund it? OK, now I understand why you are trying to find someone to blame
Ken, again. You asked for opinion about your watch. You received different opinions. Some inline with you, some not. But that you already knew you would. It was the same back when you serviced the watch you received different opinions about how to go forw...
The truth is that vintage watches are never straight forward, black or white
It’s not like modern watches where you can walk in to a store and just buy whatever you read about in a press release. I gave you my view of what is an Observatory Chronometer, more that that I can’t do without more information about your specific watch. ...
Ken.....
.....i assume that you are implying that you lashed out at me. Let me be very clear here.....my comment on this was the following: The “observatory” was only applied during the overhaul? They changed the dial during an overhaul? Is that correct? If so, I ...
I've been following this thread and wondering . . .
. . . if Ken's comment on the dial as initially received, before it was sent to G-P for restoration, has been overlooked. The dial wasn't correct when G-P received it, being smaller than it should have been. If that is the case, then there isn't an issue ...
Good to see you here in the GP forum, Art!
You do not often come and visit. Sorry for the circumstances. As for your question. Not overlooked, just not commented on since the main question has been, is this watch an Observatory Chronometer? But since you ask, let’s reflect on “the dial is too smal...
The implication, then, is that the dial currently in the watch . . .
. . . is the same as the one installed before it was sent to G-P for restoration? And that its differing appearance now (other than the script) at the junction between the periphery and the case is due to a corrected crystal/tension ring installation? If ...
Dear Art, I understand you have been asked…
But before you imply who made or what has gone wrong here. Please consider, here in the forum we only have the version from someone that gets very upset of those who do not agree with him. Someone that even if advised differently, went along and changed h...
Agreed, Blomman - any vintage that doesn't retain its original equipment . . .
. . . isn't collectible, in my humble opinion. That's why I never send my Omegas to Bienne for restoration - there are simply too many instances of watches sent there with specific instructions of measures not to be taken which are then ignored. That said...
Well, Ken could always try the link TS provided below...
Good, then I think you and me are on the same page here. Ken cloud always try the link TS provided in the end of this thread... Best Blomman Picture, credit Ken: ...
Forgive and forget…
You brought up old things that should have been water under the bridge by now. I even asked you if you really wanted to take that discussion here in the GP forum, I even asked you to think twice before replying. In your reply you even wrote “I stop here”....
Your letter confirm that your watch is a Chronometer but do not say anything about Observatory Chronometer
To my understanding, all Chronometers has been tested by a Observatory, in this case the Neuchatel Observatory. BUT , that do not make all of them Observatory Chronometers. After the normal Chronometer test, some of the watches stayed for a longer Observa...
I will not spekulate in what been said...
But your letter only confirm Chronometer. As for how well manufacture's are at recreate dials, I (and I think others here as well) can confirm that what you get back after service are not always the correct outcome.
Hi Ken!
I've been reading through this thread cos I care about G-P and love it. Also I remember posts from years back about this piece of yours that I see you still love. Now please allow me my take on this "case"...but first I will cite Melvyn ..."You are correc...
Great post, Mr. B!
Have you tried getting documentation from the Observatory; or FHH?
The Neuchatel Observatory records show that my watch received the N-score of 10.01
Thank you, Padj! Yes, I have got confirmation of my watch. Best Blomman
That reminds me...
I still have mine... Had to use a spare 32A as a parts donor for my 32A with the full set of b&p.. Sorry to chime in late, but if Ken's watch is listed on this www.observatory.watch database, it's an Observatory chronometer, as the URL lists ...
Hopefully - Better late than never.. I stumbled over your splendid post & infos about this very special GP Chronometer treasure !
And as aways superb pics, needless to say ! Your pertinent ads and docs complement so nicely this great write-up ! Sincere Congrats & Thx for this educative share ! Best, hs
Happy you liked it, my friend!
As you know, there is always a story to tell...! Best Blomman
what is a Observatory Chronometer worth?
Given the relative rarity, I have not seen any values except for one that sold for auction 3-4 years ago in Germany for $1400..
Welcome here, ivremore!
Well, we - or at least I try to avoid discuss prices here in the forum... But I can tell you that the price for a original Observatory Chronometer in good condition has gone quite a bit up north last few years... Best Blomman
thanks!
I do wonder where all these Observatory chronometers have gone over the years. According to the database, there are 702 for the years 1966/67, 40 the first, then 662 the second yet as best as I can tell, maybe ten have appeared over the last 10 years that...
Just to clarify,
Yes, 662 Chronometers in 1967. All Chronometers were certified by the observatory, but not all Chronometer had Observatory Chronometer on the dial. Best Blomman
this is where it gets murky
Hi Blonman. The database shows 702 entries for GP chronometers. I know of GP chronometers with serial numbers that do not appear in the database. Is there any known serial number for a GP Chronometer that is in the database but does not have the Observato...
No stright answer...
But we know: - All Chronometer must have been certified by a observatory for being allowed the "Chronometer" on the dial. - All Chronometer did not have "Observatory Chronometer" on the dial. Most have only "Chronometer HF". ... Best Blomman
so.....
.......by definition, GP were making a distinction between a Chronometer HF and one with Observatory Chronometer.... a distinction that should not be lost or blurred
Looking at the database website, it seems to imply that it only contains the Observatory Chronometers
Here is text: "The database contains all mechanical timepieces ("chronomètres-mécaniques") submitted under the wristwatch category ("chronomètres-bracelet") to the observatory competition in Neuchatel, Switzerland ("Le Concours chronométrique de l`Observa...
As said...
All Chronometers (regardless of brand) had to be tested and approved by a Observatory to be allowed to bear the "Chronometer" on the dial. That include all Chronometer HF. BUT, only a part of all Chronometer HF did have the Observatory Chronometer dial.
I am not sure this is strictly true
According to this (#Observatory_trials_and_standards_before_1973), movements that passed the testing by the Bureaux officiels de contrôle de la marche des montres (B.O.s), the precursor to COSC(?), would be certified as chronometers (just not observatory ...
I find it very strage and disturbing that someone who claims to be the most honest man deletes and edits posts.
Not only his own but my posts as well. From now on, KIH - please do not edit any more of my posts! Especially not without informing me! I find that behaviour very questionable. Blomman