ThomasM
[PuristS]
14331
excellent very interesting points.
Hi, Arie,
About design - both pure "design" (the non-functional aspects of design, sometimes called "style" but all these terms are soft and ambiguously used) and engineering (for example, the exhaust note and volume) - there are no absolutes, imho, and by definition taste in design is not "objective" but rather subjective, but insofar as there is a "universal" "sense" I would tend to agree that Aston Martins are more understated (some would say boring) and Lamborghinis tend to be more ostentatious (loaded term full of pre-conceptions and biases, explicit and sub-conscious), especially from the Countach onward.
You mention "refined' - I would argue the Diablo is a much more "refined" design than the Countach (ref back to my comments that the Countach is definitely a design of its times, which now looks dated, whereas I feel the Diablo is "timeless" - if the Diablo were released as a 2018 model, it would still look fresh and modern, the Countach would look "retro-futuristic" ...)
Ironic that you mention the owners of Lamborghinis and RM / Hublots probably tend to enjoy, if not revel, in the attention getting nature of using those products; I agree. But ironic because the owner of that Diablo that started this whole discussion really hates personal attention, has turned down repeated requests for interviews over the years if the interviews were to be about him and not on a "subject of interest or expertise" and he simply loves the design of the Diablo, especially that generation.
Push come to shove, and in conversations where others tried to project and force their sensibilities on to him, "come on, admit it, you love the attention..." his reply was sincerely, "I admit, I do enjoy seeing the smiles on other people's faces when they see the Diablo drive by, especially the children..."
Agreed with you about the "classic" Lambos - I used to own a 400GT 2+2 and to this day still wish I still have it...
Your side note 1 - agreed again, Lamborghini does seem to attract a disproportionate population of attention seekers and mid-life crises sufferers...
"when you are young enough to get in and out of a Lambo gracefully, you can't afford it.
When you can afford a Lambo, you can no longer get in and out gracefully."
Of course, these are old conventional wisdoms; the owner of that Diablo purchased his first Lamborghini when he was 20, with money he earned himself through hard work and a little inspiration...and still manages to get in and out of the Diablo with a (hopefully) modicum of grace and agility.
And of course we all know about the "new money" dot com'ers who could buy the entire company before they hit 25...
Thanks for your thoughts, and
Cheers,
TM
Can a watch (or any manufactured object) be douchey? and if so, what does that say about those that like / use / own it?
Let's face it
Not entirely wrong
You've raised another separate, interesting point..."value retention"
Quality is for me defined by how well an object lasts over one or two decades without having a problem and consistantly working well & responding to a normal daily use
Thank you, Georges, you certainly know much about the areas
excellent very interesting points.
Short and simple - no!
A Chinese phrase translation, "Saying the grapes are sour by someone who cannot taste it"...
One part of me wholeheartedly understands and agrees, the other part...
To your PS: YES!
I think personally that everything is matter of tastes as well as likes or dislikes and to each their own and that we can agree to disagree politely
That's the sort of position we generally hold around here.
Can we scientifically / rationally / conclusively answer a question that includes the word "douche"?
I couldn't get Porsche Cayenne, Aston Rapide and BMW i8 all on the meter
Trouble with cars that aren't firmly planted on the stereotype meter is you don't know who your fellow owners will be!
I don't think "objects" are douchey
My kneejerk tendency is to agree, but Elliot55's reply in this thread
The Liberal / Progressive take on Lamborghini
Brian and his bright reflective Lambos are (notoriously) well known in Lambo circles...
TM, I think at the end of the day it comes down to the great challenge of being human
Pirsig had a lot to say about quality
My Pleasure, Thomas
:-) Sorry - should have spelled it out. You may well have already read it?
It is :)
In A Word...
As I digest your comments, a few thoughts / questions:
With these last two posts I think we are at a point where we need a common definition of the word.
There Is A Bit To Unpack Here, So...
Lol um...
My thoughts.
Indeed indeed and I wholy agree with you on every thing, there should be no tolerance if not zero tolerance with people who just insult and degrade others for the sake of it
A different perspective....