fernando
16048
My 2 cents.
As long as there’s a free market and money to be made, there will be speculators.
Whether it’s property, shares, artwork, coins, collectibles, timepieces, you name it.
Most of the ‘good stuff’ will always go to people who are ‘connected’. Call it nepotism, cronyism, bribery, insider trading or just plain influence. Some will have worked their way up to be in a favorable position, sometimes legally, at times not. Let’s not be naïve: there’s no level playing field and corruption and favoritism often rears its ugly head.
I’m sure PP doesn’t outwardly condone the blatant flipping of pieces such as the 5131 for as much as double the price. However, as owners of the brand they must be secretly pleased that buyers/collectors will cough up whatever the price to acquire a particular model. It only reinforces the belief that their watches are highly prized and add justification to the next round of price increase.
After all if there’s a willing buyer who knowingly pays what is above MSRP and is happy with the transaction, why begrudge the seller (flipper) for his ingenuity and for profiting from it. It may be morally wrong in our eyes but ultimately, the watch ended up in the hands of an appreciative owner who obviously thinks it’s well worth the premium and/or money is not an issue (there are such people). It’s simply an exercise in the redistribution of wealth, benefiting the seller in this case.
When it comes to these ‘special’ pieces I’m neither a buyer nor a seller; perhaps lacking the foresight, desire, resources and ambition to be lured in by these ‘must have’ items for whatever reasons. Therefore, I have no personal interest in any of this and am just expressing my opinion and stating what I believe to be the overall big picture in my view. Of course I do accept different viewpoints and opinions and would most welcome to hear them.
I tend to agree with Amanico: there are plenty of fish in the sea, so what if you didn’t catch the big one. (Did he say that?) 
Cheers
Fernando
5131 - Patek Creates Business fo Profiteers
I was trying to put my name in the list for a long time in Moscow - our Russian dealer is complaining that they have NEVER received any 5131 piece since the day of its production. Fine. Patekl is saying that there is no way to get even one piece as the wa...
Go for another watch from Patek, or for another brand.
If you really want a World Time, the 5110P is an excellent choice. If you want a bigger one, the 5130P is another possibility. But there is a life outside Patek, and so many desirable watches from other brands. Go ahead, don't live with your frustration. ...
Words of wisdom Nico!
I am sure that when you badly want to find a watch that is very special for you - a watch spooking in your mind days and nights - you just shift to another brand... Sure? We all do not share you strong character (I don't know how to create the "Big Smile"...
Are there so many Patek watches which are in this category?
I am not sure. The only one I see is the PP WT, which has no true contender. But hey, how curious is it... It is not a hot watch, a watch for flippers, just a watch for authentic lovers... Well, I mean the 5110 or 30... ;) Best, Nicolas
I guess in Patek world we both share some dreams
like 5100G and 5070P. Oh sorry, you have your nice 5070G. I agree, we both have already our 5110P World Times but the two mentioned above plus 5131G (preferably P), 5140P... would be very close to the list. Life is bloody difficult! Best, Kari
Aaah, the 5100G...
That is one of the few Pateks I am running after. With a 5960P and a 3417 " Amagnetic ". Once i get those, I can say that my Patek collection is closed! ;) Best, my friend. Nicolas
Now you make me smile,
Big Time! You closing a collection... It is nearly as creditable if I'm saying that I'm closing a collection. I think the problem is that when one thinks "it's enough", new objects are coming from somewhere. Or new models. Best, Kari
No, no... It is a great satisfaction to close a collection.
And I did say that i was considering to close my PATEK Collection, which means that I still have some watches to hunt from other brands... With the same goal: Closing my whole collection. The only problem is that I have around 50 other watches to get! :) ...
If your speed of collecting new watches
is equal to 1% of your posts, you can already see the goal. Best, Kari
I heard some rumors that you can convert a
Volvo 1800 to some of your dreams. It's a good start. Like I said earlier, life is bloody difficult. Best, Kari
Naaah. This one I can't convert.
My wife and my daughter are SO in love with that car that I wouldn't feel comfortable to do so... Aaah, and did I mention that I love this car so much, too? ;) A watch is a selfish pleasure. A car like that is a collective pleasure. Best, Nicolas
I agree, all good and true, but!
You and many here know how it goes, if you have in your head it is hard to walk away for something else. And… do many other competitors will also hold their value. I know not too good to speak about it, but in truth have we ever heard about someone not ge...
Don't agree, that's called going for the under dog.
If every time we want something hard to get, we are satisfied by settling with such compromise,... we are always going to end up with the underdog. Plus, it won't work, you will keep on thinking of that special piece while you'd have wasted funds on somet...
So then what do you do? You spend 150 K USD for a 5131, just because
PP doesn't treat you like a client? Come on, a client is a client and always an honor for a brand. There are other brands which will bring you a lot of pleasure, and not underdog at all. Best, Nicolas.
Not what i was saying...
... but if there isn't enough watches for everybody, then it is what it is, not everybody will be served. You think you should be treated like a client, and you are right, but so is many other clients who can be considered to have priority over you. It mi...
Yes but comparing the other brands do not hold too good ;-)
You see Nicolas, if a person is a good AD client and has been long establishing his relationship then there is no worries in getting what anyone wants. On the other hand if you walk in into an AD and starts with I WANT A... well give me the most wanted, h...
I mostly share your thoughts
I had an opportunity to discuss this issue with some PP people in London Minute Repeater Exhibition. I understood that the "best clients" are ultimately (at least in UK) getting their watches. That sounds fine but the system is clearly not working perfect...
:) agree with your analysis
... Well said. If though i couldn't do what you are doing, hoping that one day it will fall from the sky :) Even if it does, chances are that price will be what you'd have paid today with a premium ;) Actually this thread is about dealing with hope and fr...
Indeed, there will always be a "hard to get
piece". However, the question is if I need to get such a piece. At the moment the only "hard to get piece" I really want is 5131G and if a nice 5131P will appear, that's going to take the pole position on my Dream List. Best, Kari
Dr Dr... I don't think that need is the right word...
.... its more something you put in your mind, you convince yourself that you absolutely "need" it. In this end, its just a watch, and not even a very readable one :) Especially this model, is more like a painting, a piece of art to admire, fragile ( ename...
Fun. I mean it!
I have three projects: 1. to learn to handle my frustration about 5131. 2. to generate money for a 2014 Candy 3. to create contacts to get the same Candy. Number three is the most difficult and probably also the most expensive part of the project. Best, K...
number 3 is the easiest...
... and the most fun :) You get to share conversations with passionate people and you learn along the way some interesting stuff. number 2 seems to be the one that will solve probleme 1 and 3 :) But just in case number 2 doesn't work out that well, you ar...
I guess you misunderstood...
Number three means that I have to create a good connection with an AD or Salon to the extend that they want to secure me an anniversary piece. I once had a good connection with an AD. I bought from them new Pateks, other watches, custom made jewelry, etc....
:))... no i understood you very well...
... i meant that creating a good relation with your AD goes through long talks and nice chatting about watches, not just being a customer and buying watches. About your story, i can see it from here, classic. Thing is you did what you had to do and things...
Btw I've been told that they gonna stop production in year or so
Lady from Geneva salon told me it just two weeks ago....
I agree w Nico, move to another brand
But they dont make a chrono pc like the 5070P. :-) ( they are similar ones from VC but not the same) Well, i guess i just hv to live w it. Best Iceman
Indeed nothing come close to 5070P...
... i was comparing the Datograph platinum to it, a while ago. Even though i like the dato, the magical blue dial of the 5070P is lightning years away from the cold dry black dial of the Datograph.
I was first on the french list... Never served. Is it a problem?
I love the 5070P but did I have to push the Patek Boutique's door to tell them how nice the staff is, how exciting are their watches, how much I adore Mr Stern, who is a true God for me, that I light a candle every morning and pray high and loud to get a ...
hahaha...
... Lol... i thought that with french, it was the other extreme that works better: Complaining, nagging, never being satisfied with anything, etc... etc... Anyway, if it might make you feel better, i think that even if you did all that "caressing", it sti...
I wouldn't count on moscow dealer...
if you really really want it, you will have to think with a cold mind and put personal feelings aside. It trades around 90k euro or 120k usd. Is it a premium acceptable for you to pay to get what you want right now? You are banker, so when reality bites y...
Reality do bites....
love this part "Some things in life can't be bought, but for all the rest you have mastercard" Passion is expensive and sometimes can't be bought.
thanks a lot
sorry for passions.... i dont want to move to another brand and another model. i need exactly what i need:) and if Patek think that it should be priced at 65k USD (+/-) then i would like to pay these 65k to Patek, but not these funny speculators who catch...
If I were you,
I would write to PP and ask why Moscow did not get even one watch. Tour dealer might be surprised when they are contacted by Patek. Like I told, based on my discussions with Patek's executives, they do not really appreciate dealers who run their own dark ...
My 2 cents.
As long as there’s a free market and money to be made, there will be speculators. Whether it’s property, shares, artwork, coins, collectibles, timepieces, you name it. Most of the ‘good stuff’ will always go to people who are ‘connected’. Call it nepotism...
Are they really selling?
Are they really selling for $150k? The same 4 have been listed on ebay for years. Sellers can ask whatever they want but is anyone actually buying at this price? I don't think so. I bought my 5131G from an AD at retail after about a 1 year wait.
Good discussion
I think we have very open discussion here and it's normal when people as the customers can criticize the brand they like. The key thing is that there is no deification of Patek and we can see the black and white colors. I do like BMW but I know their weak...
Just ne question:
Do you trust the Moscow AD saying that they never got a 5131? Best, Kari
I do not trust them
But it would be better if Patek will stop trust them:) As they gonna ruin their reputation, i mean Patek'
Why don't you contact Patek?
They can't do much without feedback from the clients of the brand. Best, Kari
I did it
But all they need just to buy ticket from Geneva to Moscow and visit the store. I doubt that somebody from sales persons will recognize patek senior management and immediately change the price tags and behavior. Right? What's stops them to do it? Lazy? Do...
I'm not a spokesperson of Patek
but they assured me that they are following up these new rare pieces sold with premium and will follow the watch to the source. In my native country there was a long-period tricky AD. I complained and thought that it had no influence. I heard that there w...
Whilst Patek can't stop people from flipping.....
They dO make a note of who did And which AD sold it Trust me they frown on resale of pieces like the 5131 So if you are a flipper be aware you won't be that lucky Next time As for me my5131 isn't going anywhere :)
I hope they track it
I saw your gem in other thread! Congrats! Fantactic piece of art!
no point to get worked up.
write to Patek HQ, and explain your situation...you never know. and if you already have several Pateks, and name on their records..... Patek is not the start all/end all, and there are so many wonderful brands out there, a lot offering much better value t...
I respectfully disagree with EDJA's 2nd to last sentence ..
stating Patek creates business for grey market dealers. It is the consumer who creates this business for grey market dealers. You want to see the prices come down then all consumers should STOP buying from those dealers and go through the channels Patek h...
Then who is selling to grey dealers?
How grey dealers get the new watches directly from the factory? Who is responsible for this leak of product?
EDJA...
EDJA, People get the watch and then they flip them still sealed/open papers to grey dealers. It like Ferrari cars, same type of situation on the hot new models (when the economy is good of course). i understand your frustration about this situation, yet t...
No, no. Im not blaming.
I am discussing the firm policy, not collectors or any body else. Looks like there is misunderstanding here. The subject we are discussing here is Patek. Not customers. And i did not get your message re adult world. What do you mean? Best, E
Am curious...
EDJA, in a perfect world everything would be as i want them to be. Of course this in not realistic. Wish you all the best. BTW, have you ever tried to buy a new, highly desireable Ferrari? Same thing as you are discussing here. If you truly are unhappy, w...
Is this Ferrari owners club?:)
with all recpect i dont buy this argument re ferrari. I can not afford ferrari but this does not mean that i can't critisize Patek policy or i should open my own watch manufacture. where is connection?:)
Welcome in my club ...
which is probably not that exclusive in this case. The club of people who tried to get one of the "interesting/rare/limited" PP´s, but failed most of the time. I am a member since 1989! What I learned is that PP is not the problem, most of the time. They ...
Let me stop this discussion if no objectives
Gentlemen, being a topic starter may i have the right to stop this discussion? To avoid any further misunderstanding just want to add some thoughts. I like Patek' art of watch making and appreciate the sustainable quality control as well as innovations th...
Agree!!!!:)
Thank you!!! Its really pleasure for me to be member of this club;)!!! Cheers, E
My Patek 5131J experience
First of all, Hello to every one, this is my first post in this forum, but I been reading all posts for quite some time. In my country we have just one Patek AR, they have a nice collection, When I decided to buy my first Patek I choose a Calatrava 5153J,...