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The only Dufour I took a very close look at is the Simplicity Mr. Dufour wore.
Well, honestly I think the Dufour movement is not better finished, but more decoratively finished. In fact, Mr. Dufour admitted that the finish quality of Patek manual chronographs i.e. Lemania based (by the time 5170 was not yet introduced) and repeaters were very high. For me, the 5959 represents the highest level a watchmaker can ever achieve. Of course 3939 and 5078 are also of the same finish level, but their movements are comparably easier to finish (due to bigger bridges and less complicated and filigree.
By the way, Mr. Dufour is also a long year admirer of Rolex. It surprised me when we met in 2005 for the first time. But gradually I can understand the reason well.
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Grand complication finishing level vs independent ?
Patek making quite number of watches a year, does Patek pay more effort on hand finishing their grand complication series like 5270, 5204, and minute repeaters against independent Philip dufour, Roger Smith and so on? or up against Lange? Philip dufour on...
It's a controversial topic, but Patek basically only hand-finishes their grand complications.
Even PP annual calendars show the vertical lines of machine anglage, most entry amd mid-level Pateks seem to lack hand-finishing. That is not the case for Lange. If you browse this PP forum, you'll eventually find discussions with pics about it.
Curiously, do they hand finish their perpetual calendars?
I ask because perpetual calendars are classified as Grand complications in their website and catalogue but they do produce quite a number of them,.
Think they do but not as much as they should for the price they are charging.
The vertical ridges mentioned are also seen in their perpetual only models.
I am not 100%
But I am sure they do. Think I saw some macros of the repeaters and the finishing is good. I would assume it applies to the split sec chrono as well. I am only uncertain where they decide certain price points warrants additional finishing.
I believe the differentiator with Patek finishing is if the piece has been through first and second mounting.
My understanding is that this first and second mounting process only applies to split second Chrono, minute repeaters, tourbillon etc. This is also the cutoff for servicing at the factory where PCC and below can be serviced at various sites around the wor...
Yes for the higher end of the grand complication range
ie split second chronographs, perpetual calendar chronographs, tourbillons and minute repeaters, Patek hand finish them to the highest level. The perpetual calendar being in the lower rung of the Grand Complication range is perhaps not finished at the hig...
Patek Philippe at least...
... hand finished all pieces until 2005 or so. That is well documented in official material. I have no reliable information regarding current production but would assume hand finishing as well. In doubt just buy the excellent pieces porduced before 2000/2...
I would also like to clarify
that not all independent watches are of a high caliber also. Because the question in the thread's subject sounded like it's Patek vs all Indi. With Indis there is a a wide range of quality as well.
This is the area I paid much attention and did a lot of comparison.
Generally I've examined Pateks from 90s to the most current models. As comparison, I examined many and owned a few Lange, VC, AP, Breguet, IWC and Rolex. As far as the functions are concerned, I had grand complications, small complications as well as simp...
very detalied, thanks.
what do you find finished level from 3939, 5078 compare to philip dufour? don't know if Patek highest standard can up against Dufour?, I agree that well made watch is from all the aspect, and finishing level is not the only judgement.
The only Dufour I took a very close look at is the Simplicity Mr. Dufour wore.
Well, honestly I think the Dufour movement is not better finished, but more decoratively finished. In fact, Mr. Dufour admitted that the finish quality of Patek manual chronographs i.e. Lemania based (by the time 5170 was not yet introduced) and repeaters...
“Hand finished” is a misleading statement.
Let me clarify one thing, ALL brands machine finish. The difference is the rare few continue with an element of hand finishing and sometimes they use electric hand tools, which technically is still machine finishing. I have visited many factories and thor...
You are absolutely right.
I basically regard non-automated finishing by applying electric hand tools as "hand finishing". Maybe there are still some pure hand finish procedures by applying some small tools in very very exceptional occasions, but basically (almost all) movements ar...
