Baron - Mr Red
14613
Bill.....
The Mk1 Patent Pendings occur within a very narrow serial range...one batch starting 1.7 and another batch starting 2.2. I have owned Mk1s in each of the two batches. I will answer one part of your question and that is that I have had Rolex-to-Diver watches in each of the two batches...so direct prototype for testing watches delivered directly from Rolex to a test diver. I have also known of prototypes/test watches direct to divers from both batches. I dont think it is correct to assume one batch went to divers and another batch for sale at ADs. The sample size for the latter is minuscule.
On another of your questions.... the issue of watches going for sale.... the number of watches that have surfaced showing direct Rolex-to-Diver provenance compared with AD-to-Retail provenance is massively skewed towards the former. I know of maybe 2 Mk1s that surfaced for sale with ADs. Whereas there is evidence of perhaps 10-20 or so that saw Rolex deliver the Mk1 to a diver. I think this ratio is important. I am sure Marcello will answer that point too.
Regarding the 5513 HEV issue.... that is one I will definitely leave to my Italian friend.
Rolex 1665 Sea-Dweller: Mk1 Patent Pending "twins"
The Rolex Sea-Dweller 1665 Mk1 Patent Pending has to be one of the most written-about watches in vintage Rolex territory. Some learned accounts of the origins of the MK1 Double Red can be found very readily on the internet. Of course, some of the earlier ...
Extraordinary article, Joe.
One thing I don't totally understand, but you will help me to get that point. You show documents dated from 1971 and 1972 about those MK 1 PP, right? I know almost nothing about 1665s, but weren't the MK III or already in production and for sale, at that ...
Nicolas.....
.....i suspect the answer to your question could be any number of possibilities. Firstly, my documentation shows that Rolex were lending a watch to a diver for testing in June 1971. The Sea-Dweller was, I believe, officially launched in 1971. The Mk1 lent...
i like when you cuddle me with this topic Joe
;) thanks for this reminder all the best, chris
Now who are you kidding...you needed no reminder...
.....you have the SD as part of your genetic code!
Thank you for a detailed and well-written history...
I find the history of the DRSD quite interesting, especially when compared to Rolex's history as a premier tool watch company. I have a MKIV dial but appreciate a look back at the history of the MKI and MKII dials. One thing I didn't realize is that the v...
with the Sea-Dweller...
.....over a relatively short life cycle, there evolved many different dial configurations....i guess that is also what makes the reference interesting and fun to collect....just in the 1665 alone in fact
Thank you for a fantastic post
and thank you for letting me to see these beauties in metal last Friday. It gets harder and harder to resist vintage Rolexes. But I'm trying hard... Best, Kari
Kari...really nice to put a face to the name....
.....and on the Sea-Dweller..... why resist? Life is too short!
Dear J.. Thanks a lot for this superb write-up.. The history & the story told are both..
.. Very educative & fascinating as well. Congrats to your " Very Special SD's", just 1 nr apart & all the confirming docs ! In a way it's like reading in a history book, but at the same time, complementing the story of evolution. Thank you - Thank you ver...
very good work and ...
some first points to enphasize : 1) we know for sure that HEV is the result of a joint Rolex and Comex technical partnership that have survived up to the present days ( for ex. the Deep Sea was engineered and tested by Comex as you can see from below pict...
Marcello....
. ....first thanks for your assistance with my article. Yes, the issue of Comex is certainly clearer now. Differentiating between using Comex exclusively and alongside other dive companies and private divers now seems much clearer. OK...on the issue of "p...
Where is the Rolex Comex 5513 HEV in the conversation.
Rolex submitted patent number CH-A-492 246 on 11/ 1967 (see document attached). That much we know. We also know that Rolex fitted the 5513 with HEV which is the earliest “Comex ” clean dial i.e. no Comex on the dial. The Rolex Submariner 5513 HEV appears ...
Bill.....
The Mk1 Patent Pendings occur within a very narrow serial range...one batch starting 1.7 and another batch starting 2.2. I have owned Mk1s in each of the two batches. I will answer one part of your question and that is that I have had Rolex-to-Diver watch...
seems there is a lot of confusion in this thread ...
I try to answer your various questions : 1) first batch of 5513 Comex with delivery number ( this doesn't mean at all that they are the first 5513 with valve ) was produced at the end of 1971 and delivered at the beginning of 1972 ( btw for the moment I a...
As you noted 1.7 mil case with Mk2 dial
Marcello as you mentioned it seems the 1.7 mil case must have been held back and later released for distribution with the MK2 dial touching DW. Here we assume, as I don't know if your conclusion, is all 1.7 were released later .e. after 2.1. Seems like a ...
Bill....
regarding the Mk2 Patent pending with 2.2 serial....why do you think it did not have a patent pending case back? If that was the case, what would differentiate it from a Mk2 that was not a patent pending? My Mk2 Patent Pending has Patent Pending on case b...
I did not say anything about your watch the pictures are self evident
I posted a picture of the 1.7 that had papers to support marcello's concept that the 1.7 came out later and the example I posted had punched papers MK2 dial and no PP. Your watch is not in question. Bill
OK...i minsunderstood....
....i thought you said that Mk2 patent Pendings in general did not have patent pending engraved on the case back..... my misunderstanding.
ok about 1665 with 1.7 cases ..
you can find : a) PP backs ( I have a fax sent by me to the Lake in 1999 about a watch with case nr. 1.717.XXX and PP back ) b) standard backs . you can also have PP backs ( in my opinion all born with mk2 dial ) in the 2.24Y.YYY range. however is impossi...
To confirm this....
....my Mk2 Patent Pending has serial 2,24xxxx...and with patent pending case back.
That is a fascinating comment....
"I will repeat up to the end of the world that in my opinion the only batch of 1665 PP born with the mk1 dial is the one at 2.1" Marcello Pisani And i now breathe a deep sigh of relief as i see my two PPs with their 2.1m serial numbers!! I have to say, I ...
i think i posted this before...
...this is the only MK1 sold by an AD i have seen with almost all the Papers. i'm agree with Marcello's theories, perhaps because he's the man explained everything to me? yes, maybe :) in your pay. chris ...
Yep....
......this is my point too. Just one swallow a summer does not make. We have essentially 10 times as many examples coming direct from divers as direct from ADs (albeit there can be some crossover as Marcello highlighted). Mk1 is a prototype in my book.
This is a GREAT post !
passion, history, documentation....exactly what watch collecting is about ! Thanks so much !
Thanks Jeff....
I have posted these once or twice over the last 1-2 years, but never really elaborated on the two of them. I am not sure how long I have had them in my collection now, but possibly 3-4 years.....maybe more
I know...
...I was expecting this review for some time. It was definitely worth waiting !
GREAT WRITE UP!!!
This was a great write up! Fantastic piece of history and a great summary of it. Joe you just have a great handle on vintage Rolex and especially the tool watch end of the spectrum. Thanks for sharing both images of your collection and your knowledge of t...
Beautiful article dear Joe, which I enjoyed so much reading...
... while not a fan of the Sea Dweller myself, I always finish reading your posts about this model with the feeling that I should add one vintage example to my collection to round the Submariner theme. I only own one specimen from the last series produced...
May have found one of the twins
I am in talk's of a person who was given one who work as a diver about 1971 this stoys matches up with what he is telling me