TheGreekPhysique
50
Revisiting the topic of original signature enamel dials.
Some of my watches lately have raised some debate regarding if they have remained original or have been cleaned in the past. Let me start by saying that discussion is a GOOD thing. The open flow of communication between collectors only benefits the community by broadening our knowledge and adding to overall scholarship for the brand we love. It only becomes detrimental when one of the parties involved becomes hostile and personal attacks ensue. Calling someone a novice simply because their opinion doesn't align with yours is unacceptable. See link below for context:
Specifically, the topic of debate is whether or not V&C signatures were produced without the accent over Geneve from the factory. I'd like to limit the discussion to enamel dials. I believe other dials such as guilloche are pretty definitive at this point. I have a dial with the incised technique that does not have a placeholder for the accent above geneve.
We must take a systematic approach when evaluating an enamel dial in order to come to some reasonable conclusion whether or not it has been subjected to some type of cleaning. Firstly, I would pay close attention to the dial as a whole. Is it uncommonly clean relative to its age? If the answer is yes, my next course would be to inspect the signature itself. Is the font consistent for the time period of production? After all the signature style evolved over the years. This is where comparison to other dials of the same reference and time period of production is useful. If the signature appears correct it is then important to determine in enamel dials if they have been subjected to cleaning in the past. There are, in my opinion, a number of signs we can use to support or refute this. Is the raising effect of the signature diminished? If the minute track was also enamel has its height been reduced? How do there heights compare to one another? Is the signature itself fully intact or are there parts of letters thinner or all together missing - something that occurs with cleaning.
It has been postulated that since the application of the accent above GENEVE and swiss below 6 o'clock post factum in absence of enamel that either one or both of these missing from a dial would act as evidence of cleaning. I am not so certain. I have seen enough original dials with these details missing and no other evidence of cleaning to suggest perhaps this is not a concrete rule.
I submit to you a pink on pink example of a reference 6099 that I have recently acquired. I would love to open up the discussion on the topic of enamel dials should the community be interested. As an aside I have included a picture of the caliber 1003 because, lets be honest, was there a better combination of JLC ebauche and VC finishing? The movements are just beautiful to look at.
Revisiting the topic of original signature enamel dials.
Some of my watches lately have raised some debate regarding if they have remained original or have been cleaned in the past. Let me start by saying that discussion is a GOOD thing. The open flow of communication between collectors only benefits the commun...
the dial has been 'refinished/rejuvenated'-see the photo
ref 4961original dial---see the printing on yours and compare-.'&' etc ...
Thanks for the reply
The discussion I wanted to spark was revolving around enamel dials in general not just the specific example listed above. Regarding your response I think its important to first delineate between refinished and cleaned/rejuvenated in order to have a clear ...
enamel dial restorer specialist.
www.clock-dials.co.uk this is a very specialised area to- GET IT RIGHT send them some photo's you want information on they will be able to answer any of your questions-etc or put you in contact with someone who can. i would say from the photo'...
indeed its a very rare model 6099 , fit with hard enamel signature
But as you said, a specific example does not apply to all watches. I still think accent is indispensable most of the time. Also distinguish between original and untouched. Although many people think that the lack of accent, is not an absolute problem in t...
The term refinished/redialed and cleaned/rejuvenated are not synonmous
The former is indicating the signature has been redone all together while the later is referring to the original signature remaining intact but the surface of the dial being cleaned. Regarding, the accent above geneve its not a hard rule. There were facto...
sometimes cleaning dial also made accent lost
Inductive and deductive, the two forms of reasoning complement each other, but sometimes they are completely opposite.
If an accent was lost due to cleaning, I personally would still refer to it as original.
I would just disclose to the buyer that it was cleaned.