A. Lange & Söhne

I have always felt that the whole exclusivity part on Patek has been deliberately made so by the Sterns family themselves. Being privately owned, they have absolute control over their production rate and supply, hence creating greater than proportional lack of supply to inflate certain models' exclusiveness . Lange, on the other hand is owned by Richemont, bought over with the ultimate aim of generating profits on an annual basis, hence even if the team at Lange wants to create exclusive pieces like Patek's, they simply do not have the autonomy to do so. That is not to say that Patek is not profit driven like Richemont, but the Sterns do have the absolute autonomy to shift and market their catalogue as they see fit. I do feel that Lange is in every way comparable to Modern Patek, what is lacks in history, it makes up with its innovativeness. Having said that, there are Pateks I would take in a heart beat over a Lange, such as the 3940 over a lange perpetual. Patek and Lange are both the pinnacles in modern watch making in my opinion (but my bias is towards Lange).
Just my two cents.
Cheers,
Masy

And I would add that the Sterns have had a (heavy) hand in creating the inflated market for vintage Pateks by bidding their own watches at auction, around the world for half a century.

I seemed to have opened the Pandora box and triggered some interesting discussion, and I will try to stay as impartial as I can be. Most of the points you made are valid observations.
Thanks.

Patek having a significantly larger annual production offers a wider range which makes for better chances of finding a personal appeal. The lack of a sport watch, the relatively few dial varieties and the ladies collection narrows Langes reach somewhat. Lange is technically amazing but personally I find their pieces a bit colder than Patek. Kind of like Kari's Porsche analogy. Having said this both are great manufacturers and your pieces are among the best that Lange has to offer!

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I would call the Lange style more 'functional'. Like Audi. But looking at a Lumen (a watch Patek would have never made), Handwerkskunst, Double Split or the new DPT I would call it poetry.

And the people at Lange are very warm and welcoming (although I have no experience with the Patek people; but I have heard less positive sounds...).

Looking at the volume of produced watches one might state that Lange is more exclusive as well.

I guess time will tell how Lange will do in the future (value wise) compared to Patek. Guess they will need a bit more time for everyone to sink in that Patek isn't alone anymore.

But these are just my personal feelings and not based upon years of experience or whatnot.

I'm voting Lange though, and I don't even like the Lange 1 model.....

 the finishing is better for entry-level and mid-level models but for me I prefer the more unique designs of Patek watches - especially in these same categories of watches. I am not so keen in comparing cars and watches, but IMO, Lange is like Audi: nicely built but lack romanticism. Lange watches are usually too tick for my taste, a thin watch is already a complication.

Too bad you were not tempted to own a Lange. The brand is transforming and IMO did something very smartly over the past couple of years,,,

Their finishing at this point is vastly superior to Patek, and everyone else except for some independents. Their quality seems superior (when was the last time you heard a horror story about a new Lange; or a Lange that went in for servicing). And the brand is a much more exclusive brand now; making about 5000 watches a year rather than 55,000.

which is why I own two 5270s

Does having my Dato serviced for a year count? Granted , about half that time, it was due to a dealer paperwork lunacy, but still. And the watch, as much as I love it, stopped working on its own. No impact, no stress, no travel. One day, it simply was not working. So, they do have their faults.
But, I am a big fan of both Lange and Patek so please do not take this as a vote for one over the other. I was simply handing you a horror story you asked for...

I honestly had never before heard a complaint about Lange such as this.

But was that much happier when it came back.

Agree that at the lower end of the spectrum Lange sits right up there with Patek in quality and design and it really comes down to your particular preference (though Patek has more design variety with their three-handers and calendars). Up the ladder towards grand complications, Patek still reigns supreme imho. What is interesting is that Lange has seemed to have surpassed VC and can now be even thought of as a competitor to Patek.

though a very nice one indeed....

I don't think this makes them "better" though. At this level of quality, get the one you like to look at the most!

Their finishing is superior to Patek pound for pound (perpetual Lange better finished than Patek perpetual, time only Lange better finished than time only Patek).

Patek is very traditional and the fact that they are slim, that is traditional. The general fashion is towards larger thicker watches but of course that may not last for long. To me, Lange has a better exterior and visual appeal than Patek, it just looks more modern. High end Pateks (which I will never have) look very special though but probably not as sturdy as a Lange to wear daily.
I have not had the best experience with my Patek but it certainly holds its value a bit better but by no means it is an investment in my price range. Neither is an investment, that is for sure.
One thing that annoys me about Patek is that despite a high number of pieces per year, the one you want is hardly available and a certain amount of wait is involved and occasionally followed by the disappointment of being told the piece is no longer available. I have also heard a few horror stories about new Pateks' bits and pieces falling off.

My heart and my taste much prefer Lange.

When we compare both brands, we realize that they don't have the same assets. And their movements don't have the same decoration style and more important: the same lay-out.

Lange is more homogeneous when it comes to the quality. An entry level Lange watch has a better perceived quality than its equivalent at Patek. Patek has maybe a more elegant way to create the very complicated watches.

Actually, it is a very complex question and a lot of collectors don't have a definitive answer: they buy watches from both brands!



Fx

We may not discuss the PP but i prefer Lange for the way they use the art to build magnificient movements and cases.That's the way i look to this situation.
Best ragards,
Bülent ...

Both brands are definitely at the top of haute horlogerie and it is fascinating to read the number of you who prefer a Lange because it is more modern. I think part of the beauty of a Patek is the fact that their watches look more classical and part of the Patek's philosophy is to produce watches that will stand the test of time and not to make watches according to fashion.

The fact that they can produce normal three handed watches and complications in a smaller and thinner size than Lange is a testament to their superiority. To me one of the most important traits of a great brand is making watches that are wearable, so as amazing as say the Lange minute repeater or the Lange Terraluna are, they are arguably less wearable than most complicated Pateks. No doubt Lange has superior finishing in the lower price range watches and produce 8 to 9 times fewer watches than Patek do but the fact that Patek has a continuous history and is able to service any watch since 1839 must earn the brand a certain advantage. It is reassuring for anyone I think to be able to buy a 100 year old watch for example and know that it can be restored to its original glory albeit at a price.

I have purchased 5 new Lange in the past 6 years and have not kept any of them for various reasons. The Lange 1's power reserve stopped working a day after I purchased it! The reapir took an acceptable 2 months but the point is that it should never have happened in the first place. The 1815 chrono was too heavy for daily wear even though the movement is breathtaking, the 1815 up and down, the 1815 38.5mm  and Saxonia manual were great watches and they kept time well. But somehow, and this is terribly subjective, the watches did not talk to me. Initially I thought it was the size or weight as I normally wear 34 to 35mm watches which fit my small wrist much better. But last month I purchased a Montblanc Villeret grand feu enamel monopusher chronograph in 41mm (similar to Robin Wong's but in rose gold. He is doing a wonderful owner's review in 3 parts at present) and that watch is 41mm with a thickness of 14mm and it wears fine on my small wrist.

The resale value of a Patek in general is also superior to Lange and although some of you may feel this is not important, it is actually of great importance for someone with a smaller wallet. It is normal among us collectors to keep buying new watches but sometimes we need to sell some to be able to buy new watches. So the higher depreciation for most Lange watches compared to a Patek would make a collector with less means sway towards a Patek.

My reasons for favouring Patek encompass not just the aesthetics or the finishing but for the above factors and superior customer service. I have only bought 3 new Pateks v 5 Langes in the last 6 years but I have been invited to the Patek factory, been invited to various functionsand have been presented with quite a number of gifts. Despite registering myself as a Lange owner, I have only received letters to confirm the registration and nothing else from this great German watchmaker. Yes, I do not buy watches purely to receive invitations for factory visits, etc but it definitely adds to the buying experience in that it makes me feel valued and there is a sense of belonging which is unquantifiable.

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We are talking about personal experiences which are by the way... the best assessment of course. I have two Patek: two failures (perfectly fixed by the way). 5 Lange: never had a problem. I'm not invited by Patek anymore (don't know why) but I have excellent relationships with Lange. At the end of the day, I love both brands. But again, the Lange style (I don't feel it more modern than Patek, it is different) speaks to me more.
Thanks for your detailed point of view.
Fx

My first experience with Lange, was the Lange 1 in Platinum, at the Paris boutique. The moment I put it on my wrist, I immediately "get it" about Lange. The proportions (we'll get back to that in a sec) were perfect. Even the density that Platinum represents was perfect for the Lange 1. Everything about it, the dial, the solid hands, the movement, was perfect. Whatever insanity that befell me that day to walk out of the boutique without the watch, I'll never know, but am still kicking myself for it.

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If ALS was Swiss, it would be numero uno in everyone's books.

I noticed that from the many posts on this topic that the majority of responses were pro Lange. I am just wondering if it would have been any different if the photos posted were those of Patek watches in the Patek forum.

Just an after thought.

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