A. Lange & Söhne

Dear All,

I have been mulling around the past few months about these two watches:

1. Patek 5970P
2. A Lange & Sohne Datograph Perpetual 410.025

I currently own the A Lange & Sohne 1815 Hommage to Emil Lange in Platinum and no Pateks... Everyone around me is telling me to go for the Patek but...

PP5970P
Loves:
- the overall symmetrical aesthetic look of the whole watch
- could be my very first Patek
- retains its high value

Dislike:
- Black dial again?!
- Date seems to be difficult to read in low light

A Lange Sohne Datograph Perpetual
Loves:
- the movement
- the Rhodie dial
- the red number "4" for 4th leap year indicator
- the blue second hands
- well, more price-friendly than the Patek

Dislike:
- small MP
- good investment?
- Lange again?!
- not as recognized in my country

Based on the list above, there are few things that I like and few things that I dislike from the Patek. And in retrospect, there are MANY things that I like and many things that I do not like from the Lange.

Well, any idea, comments, inputs would be greatly appreciated...

(Also posted in the Patek forum)

I have also responded to you on another web site.

One thing that is generally overlooked in this discussion is the usefulness of the Lange big date. A chrono/perpetual is crowded, no matter which dial you prefer. Big date makes it very easy, even for presbyopic eyes, to read date.

5970 in all metals is a bit of a challenge for me in this regard---takes some momentary concentration on the subdial. Maybe this is most important issue on black dial 5970P, though they enlarged the font to compensate on this dal.

My other thought is that if you decide on 5970, the nicest one is 5970G, but that is already the topic of many threads.

Nobody has a crystal ball to read into, and to know which watch in general will keep its value.

Therefore, about Recognition, if this factor is very important, go for Rolex watches, only, not Lange nor PP, as Rolex is wolrdwide known, at the contrary of the 2 others.

The most important is to know what YOU like.

About the movement: Lange, in my opinion, is the winner.

The dial: I would say PP, I don't like the Datograph Perpetual, while I :ove the Dato, and the Langematik Perpetual, separated.

The Dato perpetual is too busy for MY taste.

There is a third solution...:



Best,

Nicolas

Great suggestion Nicolas!

This is one of my favorite modern Vacheron Constantin pieces. That hand carved moonphase makes this a unique piece.

Less hype than on the PP 5970, a superb moonphase, beautiful lugs, grained dial ... That is strange that people don't generally think about this one when it comes to Perpetual Chronos.

Best,

Nicolas.

One of my favorites when it comes to perpetual chronos.

In my opinion...

The Lange Datograph Perpetual has the most superb movement. The quick correction feature is also very user friendly.

The Patek Philippe 5970 is a great watch, my favorite part is the case, I love the concave bezel and the tiered lugs. Just make sure that nobody polishes the case when it gets serviced, the detail on the lugs gets polished away.

The VC Patrimony Perpetual Chrono is the one that is indeed often overlooked but really has one of the best looking dials among the group. The lugs are nice but probably not the most unique lugs I've seen on a VC (VC often has interesting lugs, the teardrop design is unique and still a classic) and it has the cleanest and simplest look among the three timepieces mentioned.

A superb recommendation!

Although not being able to play in that league, I feel your advice is sound.

The VC is gorgeous and I like its clear dial design best of all three watches.

Best regards,

anaesdoc

A very cool winner.

Aaah, I'm preparing something on the 5970, by the way.

Best,

Nicolas

I mean,it is nice to know a watch is retaining value but ultimately its YOUR enjoyment that matters,personally Id rather "lose"some money but enjoy my watch to the full than settling for second best......in terms of satisfaction.

Even though not a fan of chrono and Perp cal in the same watch,I am with Lange on this one,especially the WG version with grey dial(stunning combination...)

the movement of the Dato perp is amazing compared to PP and the big date is a plus.

when comparing Lange and PP watches of the same category I really struggle to prefer Patek all the time.Lange oozes more quality and gravity,I can t really explain but when you handle a Lange you...feel it.....

Mo

I know recognition is an aspect for you, BUT if you are prepared to spend such money for a pp and as others have already suggested alternatives: have a look at youtube, there is a video of it in a winder.

A watch like this in a winder is simply mind-boggling !

THAT IS THE COOLEST WATCH EVER PRODUCED !

Maybe somebody can post a picture, as I am not so familiar with copyright.

It has also a Lemania based movement, like the PP !

 

If it should be between the two: LANGE !

The INHOUSE movement, epic design speaks for Lange.

If you like a more vintage pocket watch like design, than the PP.

Here, for onece, a PP looks much more like a pocket watch than a Lange, who is well known for such a design.

 

Regards

Moritz

PS: ALL enthusiast choose at times ALSO against any alleged market value.

 

This message has been edited by COUNT DE MONET on 2010-10-26 05:55:11

My dear Moritz,

After my constant efforts to get Vianney's name even MENTIONED on a forum - you have really done it!!!

You know the writings of some of our prominent friends here who place the AntiQua in the context of the start of an historical fashion (??) trend to avantgardistish cases up to whatever-you-get that is not absolutely round and spot-on traditional.

QUATSCH!

The head on the bed of my small sleeping, writing and computer room is about 2.5 meters distant from TWO Antiquas in their winding boxes flanking a hand-wound Dornblüth from which I can read the time at that distance - sometimes without glasses. Then I wake and get up to find my place in the day, week and even year. To experience them alternately in their winding boxes is amazing. They not only remind me of the rotation of satellites and planets but keep me from becoming hypnotized by a computer screen.

One is basically, according to the color of the dials, RG and the other PT.

Listen to them purring through the night in their winding boxes - in a deep sleep with exceptional dreams - then take one out and wear it throughout the day!

Who are the both of us here anyway? - enthusiasts, or trash, misfits or something like Forum DISTURBERS?

I have just taken off my work instrument, a Milgauss, strapped on my Richard Lange PLM, but am now sinply aching to put on an (!) Antiqua tfor wearing - tomorrow, tomorrow, and Tomorrow.

As a Time Traveler that should be normal. But only with an Antiqua !!!

Please be careful with photos. Most of them make it appear large and heavy. That it is NOT - but sleek and slender on the wrist, and fits like a dream, even under shirt cuffs. So many other watches are a purient, not a purist, enticement to spend, but not one of these - not for me .

If you get a chance to meet Vianney at Les Montres Janvier or elsewhere, please do so. Otherwise he will pour a bowl of soup over my head ... My suggestion - not his.

At least someone here understands me., and that is you - M. Le Comte!
.

Best Regards,
Amery

Dear Amery,

cool to see that you appreciate a "MADNESS" called Antiqua as I do !

Was it a dream, seriously asked, or is it reality: two Antiqua at home winding in theire boxes ?

Yes, Vianney Halter, must be a interesting character, if he can bring watches of this magnitude / design into the real world.

I heard that he delivers each Antiqua personally to the buyer ?

Definitally a visit to him is also on my planed journey through the swiss watch world.

I do not think that we are misfits or disturbers here.

Maybe, a little alternative, a bit critical, but that is all.

But definately: enthusiasts !



So, if you can not be good, BE careful !

Moritz


This message has been edited by COUNT DE MONET on 2010-10-29 11:39:58

Thanks Moritz!

Sometimes I think we are fighting against windmills, bad breath, and a lot of hot air.

Vianney will deliver every Antiqua personally. He has also passed through here several times, to our mutual enjoyment, on the search for tower clocks and other horologically related antique items as well as obsolete technical instruments that inspire him for his "Ali Baba Cave".

Yes, I actually DO have both of these Antiquas, and a Classic, a Goldpfeil Jumping Hour - beautiful piece - a Trio Grande Date - and coming up soon? --- the Classic Janvier, the astronomical watch dedicated to Antide Janvier's original creations and Vianney's manufactury under the same name.

Unfortunately I am no longer able (physically) to travel., but Moritz think about the link: Vianney, Philippe Dufour, to A. Lange & Söhne.

Vianney as a person? Perfectly normal - just like me or you - us? ;-)

Also Vianney Halter is more than than an exceptional watchmaker - but an artist with a particular vision - not only a "designer's" vision but someone who would easily fit into the Age of the Renaissance - but with the code and ethics of a samurai.

And you can read the time easily off of every watch that he has ever made, no matter how complicated or unusual . At a single glance! What time is it? You know it immediately.

Why do I think that it so important as well as the timekeeping properties of a watch - because so many others no longer give a damn about these things with their chirping, cheeping electronics.

So much for my fighting stance.

Best regards,
Amery

This message has been edited by amerix on 2010-10-29 12:48:02 This message has been edited by amerix on 2010-10-29 12:55:13 This message has been edited by amerix on 2010-10-29 12:59:33 This message has been edited by amerix on 2010-10-29 13:01:07 This message has been edited by amerix on 2010-10-29 13:04:22

That is L'Art de Vivre: Vianney halter designed the clock for that Paris station Gare du Nord.

And if you compare it to the HTO you will find it's genes there.

Yes legibility is great with any halter and the Janvier is truely a great astronomical watch: the moon discs that chase each other must be lovely to follow on the wrist !

Have never seen one Halter in real though, to be honest, which is a shame.

To own an Antiqua is, if I screw the fuses out of my brain, for me just possible at auctions.

But LUCKY, LUCKY MAN to own one, or two ;-)!

I will dwell about the link between Halter, Defour and Lange ! Already curious what the link is ... ?

But also Langes PLM in rose gold is somewhere in the darkest corner of my "reptile brain", urging me to buy it as it is still available in RG.

I NEED MONET !

Regards

Moritz

Actually it was Jean-Yves Mariez who designed the clocks. Together with his brother Philippe - and Vianney - they developed the HTO watch. There are signs that this project will be revived in the not too distant future, once production facilities become available.

I'll be on board for one.

Best Regards,
Amery

in which I prefer the Patek version.

The dial of the 5970 has a superb layout and it is perfectly balanced. It is not the case of the Dtaograph Perpetual: the moonphases indicator seems to be squashed and the subdials are a bit too complicated to read.

It is a pity because I really think that the Lange caliber is better to the Patek's one mainly in its chronograph purpose.

The perfect watch would have been the Patek dial with the Lange caliber. But it is not the answer you expect. So my vote goes to the Patek.

Fr.Xavier

No message body

And went with the ALS, never looked backed....might be interesting info in here if you are making a similar choice...

alang.watchprosite.com =

 

 

Lange - dial too busy and difficult to read

Lange's value is not as stable as Patek since you consider it as an important factor.

Having said all that, Lange is a better quality watch in many aspects.

Regards

Ling

I am a happy owner of a Langematik and was faced with a similar question a few months ago. However, I decided to go for the Lange as it is easier to read and beautiful on the back as well. The 5970 with all due respect, can get harder to read on black dial and also with age.

Forget value, you are going to wear it first so be happy with your choice!

People tell me the Patek is delicate and easilly knocked out of whack, so to speak, and tha lange is the way to go as an everyday beater.