Comments:
Cazalea
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-22 18:58:02
Test Drive and Review: Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Vehicle
On a nice sunny Friday morning, Mrs. Cazalea and I headed for Tustin Toyota to take a long-awaited test drive in a real production Toyota Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Powered Mirai.
Regular readers of this site may remember my report from the LA Auto Show about 18 months ago, when Toyota unveiled the car (literally):
This is one vehicle where YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET IN A FRONT-END COLLISION!
Well 18 months of real time has passed (real time, not TV cooking show time) and the Mirai is for sale. Only 8 dealerships currently deliver Mirai vehicles, and the closest to us is Tustin. They have sold about 60 in the last 9 months. I got on the waiting list last January, and a few weeks ago my name rose to the top. So we hopped in the Volvo and headed North.
Tustin Toyota is a HUGE dealership, fully recycling, generating their own energy with solar, the only LEED dealership around in SoCal, if you know what that means. Despite the green credentials, it’s a large space with a low ceiling, apparently randomly sprinkled with cars, desks, televisions and waiting customers. There’s a Subway Sandwich shop inside along with a Parts & Accessories counter.
I guess this is the new wave of auto retailing, but frankly these huge malls leave me feeling cold, and resentful that I am paying for all this infrastructure.
Just outside the showroom was a mock-up of a hydrogen “fuel pump” so the sales people can explain how it works. Essentially you just plug it on and wait 5 minutes while the car, the pump and your credit card have a 3-way conversation. BTW - a purchase or lease of the Mirai currently includes a pre-loaded credit card with $15,000 worth of hydrogen fuel credit! Despite the inclusion of this prepaid fuel, our Mirai specialist sales lady April said some customers refuse to fill up at a station near their home or work, preferring to drive miles down the road to another station to save “a few bucks”. Since a fill of hydrogen is currently about $70-90, I’d say it’s worth the trip too. But they expect the $15,000 will last about 60,000 miles, so in the long run … who cares?
Shortly after we got bored looking at the pump, April drove up in a white production car, releasing it from its under-the-roof storage bay.
I don’t know. Is this the face that a Dad could love?
The under-hood shot is suitably modern and mysterious. It looks like any other modern car. In essence, this is the electric half of the hybrid powertrain used in the Lexus RX350h or Camry. The difference comes in the device that generates the electricity. As you probably know, the Fuel Cell takes compressed hydrogen gas and converts it to electrical energy - the only “emissions” is water. And quite a bit of it too. A couple gallons a mile. In fact, the dash has an H2O button which releases the surplus water when you press it. Otherwise it collects in a tank, so you don’t have multiple gallons of water running out on your garage floor after a long drive. You can back over the flowerbed and water them as you wish instead!
There are plenty of odd angles and details on this car for you to examine, should you find it in your driveway.
Frankly, I find it a bit homely rather than beautiful or even attractive.
I tried the back seat and found it a comfortable place for people of reasonable size. Two caveats -
1. It’s a 4-seater only, with a large storage console between the seats, so you can’t slide from one side to the other, and
2. There’s a structural brace or bulkhead under the front seats so anyone with size 11 or greater shoes is going to be irritated by lack of toe room.
The front seats are comfortable as well. However, again I can raise two points for discussion:
1. The seats (and overall interior) are two-tone, but the color differential is so slight as to be nearly unnoticeable. Blue and black? Really?
2. The seats are made of “Vegan Leather” which okay, will pacify the clientele but it doesn’t feel, look or smell like leather, so what is the point? Why not call it Naugahyde?
[SofTex is a synthetic leather material that has been designed to be easier to clean and resistant to spills and stains. This new Toyota material is soft to the touch and weighs half as much as genuine full-grain leather and reflects the sun to reduce the "ouch" in the summer months. It is also more environmentally friendly than real leather...]
So in summary, the interior is comfortable, but not luxurious. When I asked April if she considered it a luxury car, she said
“Well, it has all the safety features as our luxury cars. It has two power seats, which is unheard of in a regular Toyota. It has 36 month warranty, service and roadside assistance like our Lexus and no options. It's fully loaded, so Yes, it’s a luxury car."
Hmm. This $60k Toyota doesn’t feel half as luxurious as either my Volvo ($40k new) or Jaguar ($65k new). OK, due to the Fuel Cell technology, each Mirai is probably costing them about $200-250,000 to produce, but couldn't it have been just a little nicer inside? It doesn’t look luxury when you open the door.
As befitting a new-tech car, it’s got a stylish dashboard and lots of graphics on the screen. Personally, and your taste may vary, I found it disconcertingly asymmetrical. The start button is “falling off” the dash, for one thing. The dash surfaces are swooping this way and that. The data up underneath the windshield is so far away I couldn’t read the time or symbols while driving (and yes, I do have new glasses).
My final gripe comes with the controls. No knobs to speak of. Just lots of slider thingies that you touch or tap or rub to activate. Then (as seen above) the graphics to illustrate airflow are so stylishly done that they require study to convey any meaning. Setting the fan speed is a pain. And shades of a runaway Chrysler, to put it in gear you pull the stick to the left, push forward to go backwards, and pull backwards to go forwards. You can’t pull it to the right to park (I tried); instead you push a separate button on the dash.
Before you dismiss me as an old dog who can’t learn new tricks - I learned this Citroen Visa dash and actually started to like it (after awhile). But it isn’t beautiful either and it was a cheap car. I think the Mirai wants to be elegant, but it's really a medium-price car with frosting.
So Griping aside, let’s go for a ride.
Surprise!
It drives like a Prius.
Perhaps quieter, but with a weird hum when the fuel stack is trying to catch up with the driver’s heavy foot. No unusual things to worry about other than the flashing lights signifying blind spot intruders. I was surprised at how weak the powertrain was - trust me boys, you wouldn’t want to rob a bank with it. And with ~ 150 horses pulling ~ 4600 lbs (including us) it’s no wonder. We drove the usual 5-6 mile loop with no collisions, squealing tires or fuss. No nasty hills, either, to overwhelm the drivetrain.
Depressing the power button was a depressing experience, as I noticed no noticeable difference. But still, driving the car alone might produce a more nimble effect.
Back at the ranch, we talked about colors. White, black, blue, silver. Only one interior, which you have seen. No other options, at all.
Here’s the sticker, with all the sales information. To briefly recap, you can buy it with 0% financing, or lease it. You get scads of money back in rebates, tax credits, fuel credit, and can drive in the car pool lane.
However. The car goes 310 miles on a tank of fuel. The nearest station to me is 70 miles away. On the map below, green means open, yellow means “soon” and orange means “we are pumping, but not to the public."
Due to lots of accidents and weird people driving to Comic-Con, the traffic was brutal. So we took a different route - and it was a long hot fast ride home going across the 91 to the 15 and down to San Diego. But we found our 200 hp gasoline-powered turbo Volvo capable not only of 80 mph in 108º F, but willing to do it for 101,000 miles while averaging better than 22.5 mpg US.
(PS - the missus took this photo).
I hope you enjoyed the ride.
Cazalea
Cazalea
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-22 18:58:02
Interesting stuff....
I kept noticing them on the roads in the past few months since they first began deliveries and unsurprisingly it did not leave me terribly impressed. It would appear from your writing that you were not particularly impressed either. Granted, it is their first effort in the category and, as with all such instances, I would not say that it's insignificant. It will take quite a while however to bring this concept to a place where it truly makes logical sense. With this said, I am a proponent/hopeful for fuel cell vehicles, I think that if the science can be improved upon sufficiently they are a better bet than battery powered vehicles. I'll stick with the ICE as my primary form of transport for the foreseeable future 
. Cheers, Filip
. Cheers, Filip
Well, Fuel Cell Vehicles are "new" in one sense
But the manufacturers like Honda, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, etc have been working on them for decades. The trouble is they have too many constraints right now.
They have to meet safety standards while hauling around two tanks of 10,000 psi hydrogen. They have to make a decent car, but not too luxurious that it offends the Greens who will buy them. They need performance enough to get out of the way of a truck, but not enough so the range suffers. Etc, etc.
The sales lady said the dealership rented a hydrogen fuel compressor for a few months - it was on a semi-trailer and cost them $4000 a month and only got to 5000 psi which meant the cars took hours to fill.
Hydrogen fuel is not free but I don't know the ratio of energy->in to energy->out versus batteries. I'm pretty sure you might be able to out-drive the Mirai fuel cell generating capacity with a heavy load, steep hill and severe climate. Would it slow almost to a crawl like my Honda Insight does when its battery is exhausted? I hope not.
My name is still on the list (along with 25 others in my area) until year-end when the local hydrogen station is scheduled to come online.
Mike
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-22 18:43:13
They have to meet safety standards while hauling around two tanks of 10,000 psi hydrogen. They have to make a decent car, but not too luxurious that it offends the Greens who will buy them. They need performance enough to get out of the way of a truck, but not enough so the range suffers. Etc, etc.
The sales lady said the dealership rented a hydrogen fuel compressor for a few months - it was on a semi-trailer and cost them $4000 a month and only got to 5000 psi which meant the cars took hours to fill.
Hydrogen fuel is not free but I don't know the ratio of energy->in to energy->out versus batteries. I'm pretty sure you might be able to out-drive the Mirai fuel cell generating capacity with a heavy load, steep hill and severe climate. Would it slow almost to a crawl like my Honda Insight does when its battery is exhausted? I hope not.
My name is still on the list (along with 25 others in my area) until year-end when the local hydrogen station is scheduled to come online.
Mike
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-22 18:43:13
Would definitely be curious....
to read your impressions after having used the car for a while. Ironically, I was watching a little bit of TV tonight and this ad came on....
Toyota Mirai Ad
Thanks for another great review.
The car does seem a little on the ugly side but maybe one can get used to it. I find the prius super ugly but they sell like hot cakes.
Enjoy the weekend.
Ps i love the citroen dash console. Looks like a spaceship.
You have to use half a tank of fuel for return trip to the gas (literally) station?
I got my Casio calculator out to work out that it takes 140 miles journey round trip to fill a 310 mile capacity.
You are left with 240 miles when you get home but need to reserve 70 miles for the next run to the gas station. Thus your usable range is 170 miles.
Conclusion: You need to drive 140 miles to get 170 miles of usable range.
Regards,
MTF
Yes, that's why I need to wait until the station opens 10 miles from home
which is in-between my favorite local watch boutiques.
Alternatively, my wife's father who we are visiting 2-3 times a month lives near 3 stations in Torrance - one of them offers FREE hydrogen - so we could fuel up there. But it still doesn't make sense yet.
So we will wait and ponder the options.
Alternatively, my wife's father who we are visiting 2-3 times a month lives near 3 stations in Torrance - one of them offers FREE hydrogen - so we could fuel up there. But it still doesn't make sense yet.
So we will wait and ponder the options.
Thanks for this!
It seems that the product will still need a while to be a practicable solution for many people. The driving like a Prius may not wow us enthusiasts but it shows that the technology is ripe for mass use - if you have a gas station nearby.
Still very interesting for me as the Mirais are unlikely to reach our shores for years to come.
As for the design, it is meant to be edgy more than pretty and the Prius has not suffered from this approach, either
Again a very cool review for which I am very grateful!
Still very interesting for me as the Mirais are unlikely to reach our shores for years to come.
As for the design, it is meant to be edgy more than pretty and the Prius has not suffered from this approach, either
Again a very cool review for which I am very grateful!
Kudos for the innovative effort to Toyota...
...there are so many aspects and prospects of this development but here are few of my own initial considerations.
I am not sure of the clean energy production/utilization/wastage ratios with the comparables that being the most important reason to sway away from carbon fuel- conserving energy+CO2 emissions. I am also confused by the sticker price of 60k if it takes them 200k+ to produce- is it because of the current scale of production (before economies of scale are realized) or is Toyota doing this to gain green footprint, corporate intangibles and such?
Looks - I guess the interior/ext aesthetics are an improvement along the lines of Prius but quite subpar considering the pricing.
Price - more than twice Prius pushing it into competition with the newly announced lower-end Tesla
Performance - that seems like a very low weak power train indeed. Tesla is way too powerful and simpler tech.
Technology - How wud Mirai perform in adverse weather conditions with AC/heater draining resources? Water/exhaust/sink issues in freezing temp? Complications/redressals - sophisticated technology comes with its own set of complications.
thanks for sharing Caz.
More Mirai Information: Technology
The sales lady gave me a handful of brochures, which I failed to include in my previous article. Can we take a quick look now instead? If the thought of fuel cell vehicles, gives you a headache, you'd better stop now. If instead you feel like this,
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-23 08:30:32
then please read on:
Support for the Fuel Cell Mirai
The first brochure describes the "enhanced" experience that you receive with your Mirai. It comes down to 3 things - a 3-yr parts, service and maintenance plan, 3-yr roadside assistance, and 3-yr complimentary rental car (for 7 days each year). The alternative fuel components (fuel cell, tanks, batteries, etc) are warranted for 8 years / 100,000 miles, which is required by the state of California.
These are conventional plans that are offered in the Mirai purchase or lease experience, and they mirror what virtually all other manufacturers offer. My Fiat 500e has the same coverage, with the exception that we can rent from Enterprise, National or Alamo for up to $500 per year, whereas with the Mirai you can only borrow a loaner car from a Mirai dealer, for 7 days each year.
With both companies there is a special support team to answer questions peculiar to this vehicle, using a special phone line. There is a navigation app that knows where you are, and it polls the hydrogen stations every 15 minutes to see if they are open and the pumps are available. Thus it can direct you to the nearest operating hydrogen station.
Fueling the Mirai
Fueling the Mirai
A whole brochure is devoted to fueling. Due to hydrogen's combustible nature, you have to be careful. So the fuel cap won't open if the car is running. Once you are ready you plug the nozzle onto a fitting on the car. This looks just like the fitting on your gas-fueled barbecue tank. It locks on and you can start the fueling process. Because the hydrogen is stored as a compressed gas in 2 strongly armored tanks under the car, the station must "force in" the new fuel.
There are two pressures available in California fueling stations - 35 [that means 35 Mega pascals / 350 bar / 5000 psi] or 70 [70 Mega pascals / 700 bar / 10,000 psi]. IF you pull up and connect to a 35 pump, it can only give you a half-tank of fuel. A 70 station can fill the tanks to capacity. The higher the pressure, the more hydrogen can be forced into the tank.
The car "talks" to the pump and works out the best combination of pressure, temperature and flow to fill your car. This could take 5-15 minutes depending on the ambient temperature, election, etc.
A kilo of hydrogen has about the same energy density as a gallon of gasoline. Due to the conversion efficiency of the fuel cell / electrical powertrain, the Mirai carries only about 5 kilos of hydrogen, which gives a range of about 310 miles depending on driving style and conditions.
The final brochure explains how the car works. Or rather - how it converts hydrogen into electricity - after which it works like any electric car. Eventually, much of the hydrogen will be delivered by electrolyzing water, with electricity from mostly renewables—solar, wind, bio-mass, but today the hydrogen that powers a fuel-cell vehicle comes mostly from fossil fuels (natural gas). Methane gas from decomposition of plant material in landfills is also used. High temperature steam is blasted into the methane which drives out hydrogen gas. It is possible to make hydrogen gas by electrocuting water - cracking the water molecules with electricity - but it takes a lot of water and also electricity which today makes it too expensive. Once we have enough low-cost solar, wind or hydroelectric energy (will that ever happen?) we can get hydrogen from water with no byproducts or waste.
Price of the fuel:
Hydrogen fuel prices range from $13 to more than $16 per kilogram (kg), but the most common price is $14 per kg (equivalent on a price per energy basis to $5.60 per gallon of gasoline), which translates to an operating cost of $0.21 per mile. All automakers are including three years of hydrogen fuel with their initial sales and lease offerings, which protect early buyers from these high fuel prices.
Industry estimates assume hydrogen may drop to $8-10 per kg range by 2020 to 2025. Since Fuel Cell vehicles are about twice as efficient in extracting energy as a gasoline-powered vehicles, they can travel about twice as far as a conventional vehicle on the same fuel energy. At $3.50 per gallon for gasoline, a conventional vehicle costs about $0.13 per mile to operate. A fuel cell vehicle using $8 per kg hydrogen fuel would cost about $0.12 per mile.
Lots of IFs and BUTs at this stage, and that's the price we pay to be early adopters of a new technology (fuel cells are ~ 40 years old).
Thanks for reading all this. If you did, you are a PuristS techno-geek!
Cazalea
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-23 08:30:32
More Mirai Information: Price
Buying an alternative fuel vehicle in California is very complex. Here's how the Mirai stacks up:
58,335 initial price
LEASE
$5000 down ($3650 down + $1400 tax, license, registration, etc.)
$540 / month ($500 month lease payment + tax)
$5000 rebate from California (essentially they make your down payment)
$15,000 fuel credit card
12,000 miles a year and .15/mile over mileage charge
Mirai Video Production Line Assembly
MIrai Production Line in Japan
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-23 10:06:21
Marai Video How it Actually Works
How the Marai works
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-23 10:06:35
Thank you for this informative post ... but
why must Toyota design their very ugliest cars when creating high mpg vehicles?
I'm stunned by how super-ugly the new Prius is--even super-uglier than the first models...
And this model here is only slightly less horrid, chuckle....
But credit where credit is due... Toyota innovates!
I'm stunned by how super-ugly the new Prius is--even super-uglier than the first models...
And this model here is only slightly less horrid, chuckle....
But credit where credit is due... Toyota innovates!
An owner offsets the Toyota Ugliness
This is the newest-generation Prius, decorated my one of my neighbors. Actually, I like it.
Cazalea
It's actually quite nice, once you
Stop rubbing your eyes and shaking your head in disbelief. It accentuates the better points of the car.
Mike
Mike
Errrr ... one question though ..
That red convertible (don't ask me what it is) with the white stripes also happens to belong to that same neighboor ?
Red Mustang Convertible
There is a surplus of them in my neighborhood!
Here is is from a couple years ago:
AND ALL THE REST!!!!
This message has been edited by cazalea on 2016-07-24 16:20:46
