Patek Philippe

Just some thoughts ...

The 5970 is ofcourse the most complicated Patek. Lémania based chronograph plus a perpetual calendar is a super combination. The yellow gold and cream dial is imo the most beautiful 5970 (while most of the time I would not pick yellow gold but rose or white) Months ago I had a 5970 in my hands and  all I could think about was    ' if I just could afford such a piece'

Than we have the 5070 in Platinum. The 5070 is imo THE chronograph among the chronographs. Simple, clean, perfect size and thickness. Before  2008 the 5070R was my favorite watch, closely followed by the 5070G. Never saw a 5070J before.  The J must be great too but I'm afraid the black  dial is to dark. I would probably prefer another dial color. Than we had Bazel 2008 ... WOW a platinum 5070. I didn't know what to think about a blue dial but believe me, when I saw the 5070P months ago I was blown away. This is a dreamwatch.

So, if I had the chance between a 5070P or a 5970J I would pick the 5070P. But what if the price was almost the same ? Listprice shows a pretty big difference. The 5970 is more or less 40% more expensive than the 5070P. BUT when I look at the secondhand market I notice that in Europe the price between those 2 is almost the same. The 5970J can be yours at list, sometimes even slightly under list while the 5070P demands a big premium.  The difference is no more than 5K !

We all read posts about the 'rare' 5070. Some say they'll only make 50 of them but I think this is BS. It won't be much .. but only 50 ? No way. Besides, the 5970 isn't a mass produced watch too LOL. I know a dealer who got one of each, on the other hand I know a dealer who got 2 5970J but not one 5070P.

So can somebody explain why the 5070P is so expensive ?  Really rare ? A real collectors piece ? Over-hyped ( but that can also be said about the 5970) ? Speculation ?

And which one would you prefer ? I would pick the 5070P but on the other hand ... a 5970 is a dream too. And what if you got a 5070P at list and you could trade it for a 5970 which was much more expensive at the AD but not anymore at the grey market dealer ...

 Is the 5970 an upgrade compared with the 5070P ? Looking at the complications it's for sure an upgrade but maybe in a collectors point of view it isn't an upgrade at all.

Hi Bruno,

The 5070P is the nicest 5070 for me too (and I love the 5070R). It is IMO the nicest modern two counters simple chrono, and among the best ever!

Still a manual wind perpetual calendar chronograph made by PP, that happens to be really beautiful in every detail on top of it, is something!

Between the two the 5070P may be more beautiful, but the 5970J would be in a much higher probability my watch of a lifetime!

Cheers

Dje

PP releases ( it seems to be the case ) the 5970 P...

I'm not a colored guy, so I'm biased in my choice: 5070P.

The 5970 is a superb Chrono Perpetual Calendar and has a strong good point:

When you look at both of them, you will notice that the counters on the 5070 are too centered, by the fault of a small movement housed in a 42mm case.

This problem is not shared with the 5970, which is 2mm smaller, and the harmony pleads in favor of the 5970.

But when we love, do we always rationnalize?



Best,

Nicolas

I had a PP5070R and just swapped it for the PP5970J. My decision was based purely on the fact that PP5970J is clearly a far more superior watch than the PP5070P in terms complications and movement. (Patek calls it "Grand Complications").  The latter is expensive because it is in Platinum. and IMO all hype. The PP5070 comes with  "Lemania" movement specially commissioned for  Patek which is going to be phased soon thus the hype. If you look around the Omega "Speedy" comes with the Lemania movement but not much talk and hype. But then the branding is so different isn't?

Henry   

 

 

.... i dont know much of Omega, but u mean that the movement of the 5070 is the same as the one of the omega? Or same family?

Karim

the 5070P has such a high list price, is because of the craze around the previous versions that took the price skyrocketting. But even with a very high list price, there still was a premium on it, that's melting because of the actual crisis. ..

Now that's for the price, as for the watch, i think they don't boxe in the same category. The 5970 is not only more complicated, but its one of the nicest complication, the perpetual, and one of the nicest patek. IMO, it looks better, more harmonious as Nicolas said.... But then again, its a matter of taste.

Bottom line, ur paying for the hype on the 5070P,... even if the hype came seriously down. With the 5970, its almost gonna look like a bargain

Karim

Hi there,

By chance i have seen both the watches...if you assumption is 5970J and 5070P,then i would say definately the answer is going to be 5070P.

Again if the assumption made is 5970G against 5070P then...i will be in between both.

Both watches belong to the Lemania CH27 family,which suppose to be discontinue very soon....In terms of combination of dial the blueish dial added with white chrono second hand definately stands out.And the 42mm size and thickness of the watch plus its weight on your wrist will have you blown away.if compared to the 5970J.

Therefore,i strongly susgesst ....5070P.

Just mt thoughts...

BHK9

 

 

it's called collector's irrational craze....

I'm just as guilty.  I was in Basel last year, and ended up with the 5070P and 5450P allocation, but passed on the 5970J.  Rational?... because I like the other 2 and felt them to be more "collectible" than the 5970J.  This year, it'll be the 5970P for me.  I think it goes more to the heart than the brain.   This may also be the reason why the 5070P ended up with the premium, whereas the 5970J didn't get one from the get-go at the secondary market.   That's why there are still some 5970J available in AD's, but almost no 5070P around.  The other 5970 I like is the G.

I did not realize the prices to acquire 5070P and 5970J were almost the same.  The easy answer regarding which to purchase at about the same price is the 5970J with the greater complicatons.  But the more subtle answer may not be as easy.

My sense of the 5070P is that with PT case and blue dial on top of such an already beautiful reference, this watch is and will remain a super-star.  More than simply hype, this is perhaps the most beautiful pure chrono ever produced, and it is hard to imagine that future manual wind chronos from Patek or anyone else will supplant it.  The 5070P in my book is by far the most desirable of the 5070 series.

The 5970J is a beautiful, almost vintage appearing chrono/perpetual, hyped in its own right, and rightfully so.  But for me the G, R, and probably P would be more deisrable in this reference.

Don't get me wrong, I love manual wind watches, including perpetual calendars, but I have also come to realize that there is a lot of satisfaction in simple watches, including a "simple" chrono, without the occasional frustration of resetting a perpetual calendar.  More complicated does not necessarily mean more desirable.  So my preference between these two watches for my own collection would be 5070P.  No doubt there is also some "investment" consideration in deciding between these watches at the same price--perhaps though not much of a determining factor for the long run since both will likely do well.

to me it would be for sure, Bruno. 5070P is beautiful....I saw 5970J as well....
5970J for me - NO contest !!

the brain says 5970J and the heart says 5070P (for me at least!!!)

sadly had to turn down the former and waiting and waiting and waiting for the latter!!

BUT will have to get my hands on the 5970G/P/R/J one day....

 

 

cheers!  sh

Owned both, and the 5970 is just so much more watch for the money.  It also sits right on the wrist and is the right size imho for the movement.  The 5070P came across as a "novelty" watch for me - the blue dial looks nice but strange to wear, or seems trendy, as does the huge size.  5970J was easily my favorite between the two, as it seemed more classic and old-school Patek.  Alas, both are gone now

by the way it was really easier to get the 5970j.

For the 5070P I must thank a REALLY friend of mine.......bought in AD offcial ,no premium .

 

regards