Patek Philippe

This message has been edited by Dje on 2010-04-09 23:57:34

It has happened to me twice.  One AD asked for a premium and another asked that I pay full MSRP as well as purchase an extra PP that I did not want or buy $30k worth of jewelry.  I declined both requests and do not do any business with either.

My understanding is that if a Rolex AD charges above MSRP, their license could be revoked.  I do not know what PP's policy on this practice is and hope they have a similar one as Rolex.

who are willing to pay above list so in a way, buyers have themselves to blame.

but even a minority is enough to fuel this behavior.  I won;t even pay list for anything LOL.

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I never buy something extra that I don't want, and if some AD (Patek or otherwise) tells me to buy something else so I can have the privilege of buying the watch I really want, I never set foot in that AD again. There are too many ADs out there to care about any one in particular. ADs add NO value, they are a relic of the past, and a middle man that will eventually be eliminated entirely, now that the world is a lot more connected by the internet. This has not come to Patek yet, but it will.

I would have to have a very good reason to pay list for a Patek. The only thing I can think of is a Patek with a Nouvelle Lemania. Most everything else, it must be between 60%-70% of list, no more.
Eric von Schonberg

I never pay more than 20% of list...or I just don't buy.

;-)

This message has been edited by ThomasM on 2010-04-07 11:31:45

...Vote with your feet. Then never forget and remind others.

I have shopped extensively for Pateks, at least for the two I have purchased.  And I have been unable to find a dealer that was willing to sell them at the discounts you mention.  I am envious.

Glenn

If so, congrats and you have made a choice right for you.  I just wanted to use this to highlight the fact that if you did buy one at list or above, then you have sent a strong signal to them that they can continue to do this.  But if you did not and over time, buyers decide that they won;t, it will then force a change in this practice.  The only other outcome if ADs also stick to their guns and hold this list/over-list policy... it then becomes a game of poker and winner takes all.  THe stalemate would probably last longer if it was really just 1 person on 1 person BUT.. they will be an AD who will break ranks just as they will be a buyer for which the watch is to die for and he chases it.   Again, no right no wrong... just using this to illustrate how past behavior and experiences strongly influence future actions.

I did indeed buy my two Pateks. But I did not pay over MSRP. In fact, I did get a small discount in the 10% range. But I was unable to get anywhere near the 30-40% described in the post to which I replied. And I believe the fact that I got a discount reflected that I did shop around. I was just expressing envy for someone who seemingly is able to obtain much greater discounts that I have been able to find.

Glenn

You get 30-40% off for Pateks????

your AD must really love you.....

Even ADs relations do not get a 40% discount.....

I wish that I had such a friendly Patek AD.....

Could it be that it is all about hypocrisy
patek.watchprosite.com
This message has been edited by PoyFR on 2010-04-08 00:47:29

It happened to me too, a few times, on one occasion I waited over a whole year for a piece, on its arrival I ended to decline because I refused to disburse quiet a cash sum over list-price that this authorized outfit wanted.

 

Simply walk away.  And, do not waste your time and energy thinking you will get stories like this dealt from above.

This message has been edited by PoyFR on 2010-04-06 23:15:11

I do the same. There just isn't a watch that I want so badly to pay even list.

Hi, Arthur, Yves,

I understand the principle of "price gouging" and the distastefulness of paying "over list" but since you (and I) don't have any issues paying UNDER list, I sometimes wonder, what is the unimpeachable principle from on high that paying over list should be so wrong?

Is a fair margin 1%? 5%? 10%? 50%? 100%? 1000%?

I'm never really understood the reasoning on this, even though I understand the feeling.

Can you help me out here?

Thanks in advance,

TM

Hi,

I agree with your point Thomas.

A watch has a MSRP. Once you consider that such watch should not be sold at the MSRP for some reasons (availability, demand, rotation of stock, fashion,....), why should this only end with a lower price?

If you ask an AD to make less money on  a less appealing watch, why shouldn't he make more on a very appealing one? Why would that be reserved to grey market dealers? An AD is not a public service.

Then you buy or not, it's your right!

Cheers

Dje

nt

With all due respect to PoyFR and Arthur, of course. We are having a discussion about different points of view, not passing judgement...

Cheers,

TM

Hi,

And to be clear I like discounts too.

Cheers

Dje

on the other hand...

it really depends on the watch companies agreement with the AD...

if the company says that AD should not overcharge..... then they should not.....

having said that.....

you are absolutely right....

it is your decision whether to buy or not!

if you like the dial good.. if not, just walk away....

cheers

Hi, Pink,

This comment is obviously not directed at you, only, as I've asked this many, many times in this thread and no one has directly addressed this, who disagrees and thinks buying at a discount is okay but not paying over list -

"if the company says that AD should not overcharge..... then they should not....."

So if PP says AD should not discount from list, they should not either, right?

Cheers,

TM

An authorised dealer is chosen to be to be a representative of a brand in a given location, As I understand it that is the job endorsed when the agent is appointed. 

I chose not to believe that any brand would ask their authorized agents to exercise discriminations or selective processes, nor do I see any advertisements anywhere from any manufacturers that say ‘who can pay ME more than the price’, prices initially carefully prepared and positioned by the manufacturers.

I agree and I know to be naïve. I believe the suits must match the attitude.  I think those that we are here speaking about have actions to which I could only relate to if meet in some places else.

Thomas, I know you know the feelings only too well.

I also understand that anyone can charge what ever he wants, my problem here is that I do not like that over priced paid to someone who will often not even stand for the product, nor will offer any added services. To me I see that sort as opportunists or worse people that will never know when is enough.

I am and will always be surprised to see those practices in places I would least expect.

Hi, Yves,

"An authorised dealer is chosen to be to be a representative of a brand in a given location, As I understand it that is the job endorsed when the agent is appointed. 

 

I chose not to believe that any brand would ask their authorized agents to exercise discriminations or selective processes, nor do I see any advertisements anywhere from any manufacturers that say ‘who can pay ME more than the price’, prices initially carefully prepared and positioned by the manufacturers. "

 

Exactly, Yves, and neither do I see or believe that brands ask their AD's to exercise discrimination or selective processes to give discounts - "you are my friend." "You have bought more from me" "You can afford to buy more from me." "You are a Count." "You are pretty/handsome." "You know how to bargain, not like those stupid people who don't know how to ask."

 

And so you get a discount.

 

 

 

In fact, as I understand it, Patek and most brands would prefer their merchandise NOT to discount, but I've never heard anyone complaining about being offered a  discount.

 

"I believe the suits must match the attitude.  "

 

I cannot agree with you more, and as you know, I hate hypocrisy above all else (so much so I left huge amounts on the table on that 195, as you know, Yves, even though I still received, unfairly in my opinion, huge amounts of vitriol and accusations on that act, and very little appreciation from the beneficiary. C'est la vie.)

 

"I also understand that anyone can charge what ever he wants, my problem here is that I do not like that over priced paid to someone who will often not even stand for the product, nor will offer any added services. To me I see that sort as opportunists or worse people that will never know when is enough. "

 

Unfortunately, I see that problem with most AD's in general, even selling at retail. Most AD's suck, let's be candid - they don't know their products; their SAV sucks; and most just want to separate the buyer from their money and nothing more, don't bother us.  Those AD's don't even deserve 1 centime of anyone's money.

 

But that's a different issue, imho, from what we are discussing here - if it is bad to charge over list, then there shouldn't discounts and customers shouldn't whine when over list is asked or ask for a discount, if they don't want to be hypocrites.

 

Remember the story about the girl who was offered a million dollars to sleep witth a man? After a long, tortured, considered moment, she said yes.

 

Then the man follow up, "how about $100 Euros?" The market price for prostitutes.

 

The girl drew back in indignation. "What kind of girl do you think I am?!?"

 

"We have already established that, my dear girl. Now we are just haggling over price."

 

Cheers,

 

TM

 (edited to add line feeds; for some reason the post originally all smooshed together)

This message has been edited by ThomasM on 2010-04-07 09:50:39

I have learn through the years not to believe rumours, rumours are often if not always serving one or more person interests.

In the case of that 195, it was said that a huge price had been paid, first it was not my business, and more importantly I did not know at all the other party... the seller. I drew my own conclusions and wrongly was a participant in those accusations (call that passion).  Whatever was the case, it was bad from me.  Since that day I sat and listen to you speaking about watches, I feel I have missed on meeting some of the people.

I will come back to the topic here discussed later. In short, I agree with discounts granted to repeating and faithful customers, I will always disagree with those bonus added values to MSRP often put in practice by the laziest or the crookest who is allegedly or presented as a part of a ‘legitimate network’.