patek philippe 5016 tourbillon minute repeater.
I have been surfing the web and just stumbled across not 1 but 2 5016's up for auction on the Christies website in New York on the 16th of June.This is my favourite patek model because so many complications are housed in a simple,yet beautiful caseing.I saw this model when I visited the Patek museum last year.One of the models for sale has the production number 1905 001(the one in the museum is 1905 000).Is this particular model being discontinued and are they as rare as stated???
Patek Philippe 5016 Minute Repeating Tourbillon
It will braek the bank ...
It is still available with price on request.
Getting one can still be difficult, I would reckon.
And you will have to wait.
Auction prices are at Sotherby's listed for platinum 5016s, which were quite "low" at that time, for a platinum edition.
Found also one for a YG version.
Be prepared for £240 K, at least.
Which of the two ?
Like for inexpensive watches applies here also: whatever you fancy !
I personally would choose the YG version, as I am a more colourful person ...
Best of luck if you are going to bid
Moritz
contingent on approval...
Was not sure...
just assumed it will be that difficult with pieces of that caliber.
So if you are in the position to bid on it, go for it mate !
There is no better cost-effective way to acquire such a marvellous watch.
Regards
Moritz
It is a low production piece but....
Reference 5016 is a low production piece but it has been produced for quite a while now so we can imagine that there are a few out there and that some owners may want or have to sell after such a long time.
#1905 001 may be a great number to collect!
The watch as indicated by others is still available to order so you can also choose to try to order one.
Cheers
Dje
ps: please no comments about market value, as per forum rules.
Sorry for that !
Regards
Moritz
Patek 5016
There are rumours that the 5016 will be discontinued very soon. The entire production run would have been in the region of 200 pieces. One can therefore conclude that either of these watches is extremely rare. A few years ago, if I had been asked the question as to which one I would have preferred between the two that are offered, my answer would have been simple: platinum. Now as I look at them, I would say in this instance that the yellow gold one offered would be my first choice.
My reason is very simple; it was the first available. Unlike other watch companies, Patek Philippe as a rule do not number their productions. Therefore having what was at the time their most complicated wristwatch, by the best company and it also being number 1, seals it for me! Another consideration would be that, as production of these watches stops, they will start to look like seriously good value compared to the current models released at the Basel fair.
My only consideration now is when do I break it to my wife that we are going to sell the house, live in a tent but have a great watch!
different sounds from different metal
p.s on the bright-side you can tell your wife that if she needs to know the time in the middle of the night in your tent she only needs to slide the MR switch on your watch!!
Metals and sound!
There are several theories about the sound and the metal of the case but AFAIK pink gold has often been recognized as the best sounding precious metal.
Titanium and steel have been also recognized as sounding very well, if not better than pink gold (AP or JLC for instance have experienced these materials, maybe GP too).
Furthermore FP Journe for instance has chosen steel as the best metal for its repeating watches (I've never been able to hear any by the way).
Then there are other aspects.
First the gongs: the cathedral gongs of the Patek Philippe 5074P (heard last summer) have given the best ever (all brands included) to my hears, even better than what my memory remembers of a pink gold 5016 heard long ago (more than ten years ago) or an extraordinary pink gold skeletton tear drop VC owned by Claude-Daniel Proellochs himself (although the three tear drop VC I heard were all excellent, one in pink gold, two in platinum) or a Grande Sonnerie wristwatch from Philippe Dufour.
The sound of all "simple" gong platinum PP watches I heard was excellent but not to the level of cathedral gong models.
That's the reason why I would choose a 5074 if I had the hard task to choose a PP wrist minute repeater. I'd love to hear a 5074R and compare with a P to hear if it's even better!
I love the 3939 for its simple pure and perfect design, or the 5016 for its blend of functions, but the sounds rules for me.
The 5013 is another underappreciated watch for its original and rare (for PP at least) look that I appreciated a lot when I saw it.
Another aspect: the question of which metal is based on the principle that the sound comes through the case. That's certainly true but probably partly only.
Jaeger-LeCoultre has shown in the last years that the sound also comes through the glass and has consequently issued fantastic watches like the Master Minute Repeater which titanium version is particularly excellently sounding (still not comparable to the PP cathedral gong IMO). The new Master Grande Complication issued last SIHH or the Duometre a Grande Sonnerie will be certainly interesting to hear once production pieces will be accessible.
I would advise to do some search on our past subjects (not just PP) about the sounding of repeaters. Several have posted (among them our own Dr Thomas Mao) very interesting articles on that subject.
To conclude I would add one personal aspect: if I really had money to buy such pieces, I would look for a top pocket watch, or would commission a pocket watch from PP with cathedral gongs! That would be something!
Cheers
Dje
Different Case Metals
I sure I am right in saying that in the ref 5016 the movement caliber and the minute repeter mechanism
are identical. The gongs strike the circular wires attached to the movement, which creates the sound.
The resulting sound passes through the metal case, and depending on the density of the metal either
more or less sound can be heared. The gongs do not strike the internals of the case.
Very right
It must not be forgotten that such watches are not water- or dust-proof.
F.P. Journe's steel repeater is water-proof, as the manufacturer is saying, but I am not in the position to test it, unfortunatelly.
Also: the wire design for the gong is very much different to the classic circular wires.
Platinum is actually harder than gold, but as 18 k gold is an alloy, and RG contains copper, that is quite hard, it should be the reason why RG has good sound transmission qualities.
The best has steel as it contains chrome and cobalt and especially chrome is very hard.
Regards
Moritz
Definitely the acme of Patek Horology
If my wife would allow me to re-mortgage my house I would not hesitate to fill in the form for one! BTW, word goes that WG/RG would give you the best timber for the minute repeater, platinum would be too stiff for a perfect sound. Cheers, Larry
PATEK PHILIPPE 5016 MINUTE PEPEATING TOURBILLON
Gentlemen,many thanks for all your interesting and informative comments.I have now done some of my own research on this particular model now and after googleing all the images available the highest production number I can see is 1905 129 and the lowest being 1905 010,therefore confirming your statement that this particular watches production to be about 200 units!?Whilst you can get this watch in the various patek metals which seem to produce different sounds when the gongs are activated I agree with your statements and keep getting drawn to the uniqueness of 1905 001 which does seem to be the first watch produced for public consumption.
This only confirms the mystical draw that the Patek Philippe brand has for it's BIG WATCHES,indeed for ALL the range of watches in produces.
Thank You.
5016 movement numbers
The mysterious world of Patek Philippe conforms to little else that I know of. I suppose this is why it is such a wonderful enigma.
Patek reserve series of numbers for their more special watches so that each of the tourbillion movements are numbered depending on which model and level of complexity they are to ultimately to end up with .
The 3939 series of watches are all numbered 1903001 onwards. The ten days 5101 watches are 3361001 onwards and the 5002 are 3350001 onwards.
The ref 5016 is 1905001 onwards , so a total of approx 200 watches would seem about right.
Watch reference numbers are easy to remember. I never thought that it would get so bad that I would start remembering movement numbers , I must need help!
Patek 5016 #'s
This message has been edited by mkreyes on 2010-05-23 16:11:22
It's Arrived !
The postman delivered the brochure for the Christie's Important Watches on the 16th of June in New York this morning.To see such a huge range of magnificent watches in full colour in A4 size is so much better than reviewing them on the internet.I can now appreciate the finite detail of all the watches on show.Yet again Patek Philippe dominate the sale with their Big Watches being afforded at least 2 pages each.It is only when you see these watches reproduced in this size can you appreciate the beauty and detail of this outstanding brand.My favourite 5016's look exquisite so at least I can glance at them every day on the coffee table. I will watch with great interest what happens in 3 weeks time.Thanks again for all your informative comments.