Patek Philippe

The most impressive characteristic in Patek Philippe is without any doubt the high number of references that make up the catalogue for a brand whose production is estimated at 45,000 pieces per year. Take for example the 2 or 3 hands simple watches: Patek Philippe offers a wide range of proposals which is getting broader in 2012 with the unveiling of the 5123R.

By discovering the Calatrava 5123R, I didn't have the feeling to be in front of a novelty of this year. Because it is the main force of Patek Philippe: with constant reminders of the past, each new watch gives the impression of never having left the catalog. There is something extremely comforting in this approach that responds perfectly to the expectations of the clients who like to create links between today and yesterday references.





From an aesthetic point of view, the 5123R can be considered as a reinterpretation of the Calatrava 2526: Dauphine hands, the minutes track, the shape of the indexes,  they all bring back the purity of the dial of this famous reference. In the watchmaking world, it is very complicated to do it simple. Patek Philippe however doesn't have this kind of problem because its rich history is an inexhaustible source of inspiration and the 2526 constitutes the quintessence of the 3 hands watch.

At this stage, I know that some of you don't agree with me about the 2526 inspiration and that other reference like the 2573 due to the second hand display and even the case shape. But again, it is another asset for Patek Philippe: each of us can find the link with the past he wants to find.

The 2573:





Credit: Guille

The 2526:



Credit: Fabios

Back to the 5123R:







The silver opaline dial (and not an enamel one unfortunately as it was often the case for the 2526) has a deep elegance, the Dauphine hands tell the time with a very refined way over applied gold indexes which provide the necessary touch of volume. The second hand is very discrete, its sector being materialized by the crossing of two extremely fine perpendicular lines. This effect of style, while commonly seen in the past, is not harmless here and shows great skill from the Patek Philippe designers. This subtle sector tries to  hide dial side the main problem of the 5123R: the movement size which is too small. While this problem appears clearly on the 5196 which uses the same caliber, it tends to fade on the 5123R while the case of the latter is bigger (38 mm vs 37 mm for the 5196).





If the 2526 resemblance is quite obvious from the aesthetic point of view, it is  absolutely not the case from the mechanical point of view. The 5123R is a handwind watch in which we find the venerable and old 215PS. This movement is of course excellent, it has powered with efficiently many watches for several decades. I love its lay-out, the shape of its bridges and its performance is after all very acceptable. It features the Gyromax balance, a power reserve for 44 hours with a frequency of 4hz (which is quite unusual for this type of movement)  and all this, in a very contained size. If the thinness (2, 55 mm) is an asset in the context of a dressed watch, the 21.9 mm diameter is more problematic. To fully understand the difficulty to make the movement visible, you must realize that the 215PS is naturally found in 31 mm cases and Patek Philippe was even obliged to hide it with a solid caseback  in the context of the 5196 in order to avoid the view on the encircling ring.





All the Patek Philippe talent was to manage to create an opportunity from this concern: the movement is too small? Not a problem, we adapt the case! And so the 5123R uses with a rose gold case  with amazing curves which we have the pleasure to discover after the first glance. The diameter of the back is considerably reduced from the 38 mm (excluding crown) dial side. When the watch is turned over, the movement size is not anymore shocking. However, this unusual case shape may be surprising. The lugs as seen dial side seem to be very short while their actual size is far from being small.





When I put the watch on my wrist, these considerations were faded due to the charm of the dial is and the overall elegance which gives some power of seduction. I find it most convincing than the 5196. But I also believe that Patek Philippe has reached the end of the process with the 215PS. While the competition has been very active in renewing handwind movements (I'm thinking about Vacheron with the 4400 or  about Lange & Söhne with the L051.1 and L093.1  which are more adapted to the context of today cases), Patek Philippe still remains stuck with its 215PS. Time has come to find a worthy successor to this proud movement and to design new simple watches with will be balanced both dial and movement sides. The Patek Philippe prestige and power of attraction  are so out-of-competition that the Manufacture has to be very careful not to do it too easy. It is a feeling that cannot be excluded when we analyse this 5123R.





Many thanks to the Patek Philippe France team.

 

I very much like the watch; however, I remain uncertain about the abbreviated lugs.

Cheers,

John

Lugs are a bit strange with this watch: they look small dial side and very long movement side.



fx

Have not seen it, but by using my experience with Pateks so far: it will be another unbalanced Patek.

To put the 215 in a 38 mm case and trying to make the case look smaller by using a bizzare shape and short lugs does not work for me.

The dial will be vast looking.

The indices are to long and do not really hide, again, the fact that the watch is simply too big.

I found the 5196 also disappointing as it felt already like a plate on the wrist: unbalanced.

The only worthy holder of the 215 is the 5119: that is a classic watch, that is a Patek.

A new 215?

Is not the question: why no more 36 mm is the actual question.


Must be seen in real soon but I very much doubt this one will hit any nerve.


Best

Moritz

because the people I know don't want these tiny watches anymore

A dresswatch is prefered to be between 40 and 42 mm. Ofcourse I know some people still like or even prefer 35 or 36 mm but they are the minotity, just like only 10 or 15 % will prefer 46 and more

Create a poll ( maybe a moderator should make one ... Nicolas ??) and let the people choose between these options

33 mm and smaller

34 - 35 mm

36- 37 mm

38 - 39 mm

40 - 41 mm

42 - 43 mm

44 mm and more

 

I'm pretty sure the majority will vote between 40 and 43

And as we are doing a poll anyway: let us also measure the avarage wrist size.

Believe me: this is a bow to the American taste, at the moment, suggested by marketing and consulting companies to Patek.

I am sure Patek does this reluctantly.

The Chinese have all my hopes to rectify this misery, same as we hope they will help us out with the financial mess that we are in.

As you can see: who thought about monetary aid comming from China to the West 10 years ago?

Same will be with the watch world, I am surre.


My vote: 36-37 for a classic, time only dress watch says a Count de Monet ahead of his time !


Best

Moritz

The bezel, the shape and length of the lugs, the dial colours, the indexes... you know some 36mm watches look as big as 38mm ones. Diameter is only one parameter.

Thanks for your comments!

Fx

And it is even an auto with the caliber 240: what, honestly, what can a purist ask more for?

The "entry level" Pateks are Pateks of and for the future as they are showing the past, the history and essence of watch making.


Best

Moritz

 

 

Like said, via another forum because I can't make a poll on the purists. Linking is not appreciated so I just show you the results

 

It's about the average watch and a forum like the purists where you have several brands and not only Panerai  LOL  ( does TZ ring a bell ? 

 

Anyway why do you think that Rolex makes bigger sportswatches and bigger datejusts and day-dates, sky-dweller. Even  Lange increased their watches, (saxonia, Lange 1 Tourbillon, Zeitwerk, Richard Lange PLM, new Dato, ...

AP's Millinary became bigger and so did the new RO

I see several new Breguet watch above 40 mm, and the same goes for Blancpain

Doe sGreubel Forsey makes a watch smaller than 42 ?

Lang & Heyne, also between 40 and 45 and

Look at the IWC watches made in the past 5 years

Patek 5235 / 5960 / 5980 / 5270 / 5204 /   .... if the 5107 would have been 41 and not 39  I THINK it also would sell better

Richard Mille, Roger Dubuis,

The new Urban Jürgensen 11-C, a very nice piece .... 42 mm

I could go on and on and on 

 

 

 

 

A sportwatch is good around 40 / 42 mm.

A toolwatch can be even bigger.

A Grande Complicaton needs some place, so I would say somewhere between 42 and 44 mm.

A dressy watch, time only, cannot be, in my eyes, big, it is antinomic.Less than 40 is much appreciated. 35 to 38 is perfect, for me.

So, in my opinion once again, there is no ideal size, it all depends on the watch, the volumes of the watch ( sme are lacking coherence ), the category, the use, and also the culture of the owner, his wrist ( a dressy 35 mm watch on a 25 centimeters wrist may look weird ) and so on...

Some brands go higher, some don't.

And the small vintage watches have more and more success...

Best,

Nicolas

because there were no bigger watches 30 - 50 years ago

35-36-37 was the standard size in 1950 - 1960 - 1970

 

I'll tell you more, but this is again my personal opinion ... if you could find vintage watches between 40 and 42 , these would be more popular then the 35 - 37 mm watches.

I think I have seen this also, somewhere.

Sure, a sports watch, casual, also let it be a complicated one ... why not 40+.

BUT my reference is a classic watch.

 A Lange 1815 does not look the same in 40, or even a change of +1.7 mm in case of the 3940:

the overall expression is different to the original.

Have a look at Patek's 5050: that is a complicated watch that fulfills all traditional watchmaking criteria:

slimm, small, timeless.

 

Thank you again for the chart.

 

Moritz

 

 

nt

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First of all, it depends on the markets and with high end watches, you always have people interested in small cases. Look at the Simplicity 34mm... It is funny but when the quality is here, size is not a problem anymore.

;-)

I'm still wearing my 36mm 1815 with pleasure.

Fx

ofcourse some people still like 34 mm watches but like said I'm pretty sure they are a minortiy

Why do you think even rolex makes their watches bigger ?

The Dufour is a superb watch but if he would give the possibility to order this watch in 34 or 40 mm I really think 40 mm would sell better then 34

I won't say eveybody asks for a 44 mm watch, that is also a minority ( just like the - 36 mm )

But I'm pretty sure that 60 - 70% off the people will ask for a 39 - 40 - 41 - 42 mm watch and not a 36 mm if they had the choice.

I've just sent a PM to Nicolas and asked him if he could make a poll on the horological meandering forum. There we have a mix of people

who like all king of brands and all kind of watches .... so if a mod ( doesn't need to be Nicolas) would make this poll, we'll have a idea  ;-)

 

to get a second opinion ... I posted a similar poll on another site  ... the second best site for watches 

This is and this is not a problem, from my point of view.

This is a problem because if Patek wants to use such a small movement in their watches, they should, maybe, think about releasing a smaller case, around 34 / 35 mm.

What? There will not be demand for that? See JLC with the MUT... Not big sales, but enough to justify this 34 mm in the catalog.

Now, put a solid case back, and like with the 5196P, you have a superb watch.

So we really need to see the movement?

How the amateurs of Belle Horlogerie did in the past, where there was no sapphire case back, eeeh?

Best,

Nicolas

If the 5196P is nice, it is also because it doesn't have the same dial than the other versions. And the gold versions display a very unbalanced dial IMHO.

And yes I'm sure that they would have sold without any problem this 5123 with a smaller case.

Fx

case back 215 is not too bad. I am just playing with my 5134P and I have very little to complain.

But, I'm with the Count on this one. The case design does not appeal to me in the least.  Case lugs, the bezel and the dish-like case back leave me cold.

Maybe Patek should just re-introduce the 2526 instead of a new interpretation of a classic which frankly, misses on many points.

There was a time when a reference was no longer available, it was not discontinued but just no longer in production.  Given the interest in the classic pieces, it would seem Patek would consider production of classic styles.

About the point you are underlining, I don't know if Patek would do it: it would be far from their strategy. They are the best to create iconic watches... by stopping them.



Fx

It is WAY too narrow. looks like a 16 mm strap for woman :-(

And after a few minutes I was used with it.  It matches well the case shape IMHO.

Fx

Hi,

I was pleasantly surprised to discover this new reference as I have very little appeal for modern Calatrava models (except for the 5196P or 5153G).

I like this watch that looks like no other, is classical yet original. I like the special lugs and the narrow strap as it gives a very special look and that aspect reminds me the 3939.

I undestand that Patek Philippe should also offer larger models (maybe one above 40mm) but I prefer small ones.

And for once the 215 seems perfectly proportionned!

Best

Dje

You are right, the strap contributes a lot to the special look.

They always manage to create appealing details...

Fx

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