Comments:
The differences between 5204 VS 5951
Right we've got two Split Second Perpetual Calender Chronographs here: The 5204 (and it's Lemania-based predecessor the 5004) and the 5951.
Can someone explain the difference between these two pieces (aside from the obvious about shape and look etc).
The 5951 is almost twice the (already very very substantial) price of the 5204 and from what I heard in the Geneva boutique, they've delivered only 10 pieces since it was first released...
What's the story then as, theoretically at least, they do the same thing - split seconds chrono and perpetual calender display.
Any ideas/information?
Sure!
Hi Murcielago boy,
Reference 5951 is based on thinner base calibre, requiring a harder work at producing parts, finshing and assembling them. It is also finished to a higher level, somewhat at the top of what Patek Philippe has done in that area.
So some technical aspects are different inside and led by the search for thinness.
Best
Dje
Reference 5951 is based on thinner base calibre, requiring a harder work at producing parts, finshing and assembling them. It is also finished to a higher level, somewhat at the top of what Patek Philippe has done in that area.
So some technical aspects are different inside and led by the search for thinness.
Best
Dje
Yours ...
even better 
Congrats, it is an incredible piece.
Please feel free to share more pictures, sentimens and thoughts about your beauty.
Thanks!
Oliver
Congrats, it is an incredible piece.
Please feel free to share more pictures, sentimens and thoughts about your beauty.
Thanks!
Oliver
The differences are in the details (inside) ...
and both are based on two very different movements (as mentioned by Dje before).
Ref. 5204, cal. CHR 29-535 PS Q vs Ref. 5951, cal. CHR 27-525 PS Q
The latter is smaller and thinner and the approach is different - VERY limited production, because of VERY limited resources to do it.
The production of the "smaller and thinner" movement costs about double as the production of the "bigger" movement - at least my guess, when we talk about that level of finish.
One is a "regular production" piece with (only) special order needed. One is only "special order" and comes with an even more difficult process to get.
Marketing only? No, not at all - superior handicraft is the key
Best,
Oliver
Ref. 5204, cal. CHR 29-535 PS Q vs Ref. 5951, cal. CHR 27-525 PS Q
The latter is smaller and thinner and the approach is different - VERY limited production, because of VERY limited resources to do it.
The production of the "smaller and thinner" movement costs about double as the production of the "bigger" movement - at least my guess, when we talk about that level of finish.
One is a "regular production" piece with (only) special order needed. One is only "special order" and comes with an even more difficult process to get.
Marketing only? No, not at all - superior handicraft is the key
Best,
Oliver
5204 and 5951 do NOT DO the same thing: one is a sschr pp, the other more a chr pp
A very interesting question here!
The 5951 uses the caliber first introduced in the 5959.
As said very thin and threfore with HORRIBLE tolerances for the watch makers!
But aside that it has got some much more interesting features:
- a continiously moving and not as usual, like in the 5204, a jumping minute display of 60(!) minutes and not only 30 minutes
- this is possible due to a minute colum that goes through THE ENTIRE clockwork, staring from the main plate up the the chrono element at the top
- this minute colum is also carrying the minute counter wheel which has NO CONTACT to the chrono second wheel !!!
- this all ensures less friction if the chrono is started
Therfore it is a FINE CHRONO!
BTW: the 5959 caliber at least is made out of German Silver and assembled twice, too.
I do not know if it is the same with the one used in the 5951.
Rubins, mainspring and hairspring are not from Patek, though.
Unfortunately it has not got an isolator mechanism, hence it is a "not so good" split second chrono, to put it mildly!
Based on the 5959 the 5951 will have the pp calender part on top sitting.
The 5204 in contrast is thicker but a FINE SPLIT SECOND CHRONO witha pp calendar mechanism.
Fine as it has got an isolator mechanism, that is quite helpful to avoid wear and running.
Now, what you choose, what you see as a more desirable construction is something that you decide!
Best
Moritz
The 5951 uses the caliber first introduced in the 5959.
As said very thin and threfore with HORRIBLE tolerances for the watch makers!
But aside that it has got some much more interesting features:
- a continiously moving and not as usual, like in the 5204, a jumping minute display of 60(!) minutes and not only 30 minutes
- this is possible due to a minute colum that goes through THE ENTIRE clockwork, staring from the main plate up the the chrono element at the top
- this minute colum is also carrying the minute counter wheel which has NO CONTACT to the chrono second wheel !!!
- this all ensures less friction if the chrono is started
Therfore it is a FINE CHRONO!
BTW: the 5959 caliber at least is made out of German Silver and assembled twice, too.
I do not know if it is the same with the one used in the 5951.
Rubins, mainspring and hairspring are not from Patek, though.
Unfortunately it has not got an isolator mechanism, hence it is a "not so good" split second chrono, to put it mildly
!Based on the 5959 the 5951 will have the pp calender part on top sitting.
The 5204 in contrast is thicker but a FINE SPLIT SECOND CHRONO witha pp calendar mechanism.
Fine as it has got an isolator mechanism, that is quite helpful to avoid wear and running.
Now, what you choose, what you see as a more desirable construction is something that you decide
!Best
Moritz
Thanks to both Oliver & Moritz.........
For your fine explanation regarding the differences.
Regards
Tony
PS Personally, I always marvel at how collectors have so much in-depth knowledge
And the 5951 is
Also a mono pusher chronograph as well, another important difference.
Gary